Re: It's not Rust, it's FreeBSD (and LLVM)

On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 12:18 PM Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 12:10 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> As part of the migration, we yank LLVM out of the src.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> "pkg upgrade" also upgrade kernel and userland packages - Welcome to
> >> the century of the fruitbat.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> And yes, we have ports written in Rust, why do you ask?
> >
> >
> > pkgbase is the path forward. It is the future. We are better off putting
> all our
> > horses behind that effort so we can make it the default install in 15.0.
> >
> > Once we have that, this whole debate becomes moot, for the most part.
> > Userland in rust can compete with userland in C. And with go, python, etc
> > for whatever does the job the best. If rust is so much better, then
> people
> > will use it, otherwise they will use the C version.
>
> How will pkgbase handle the private interface problem?  For example,
> libifconfig and the /dev/cam/ctl ioctls are both unstable.  A port
> that uses one of those and is built for FreeBSD 14.0 won't necessarily
> work for 14.1.  As long as those interfaces' consumers are all within
> src there's no problem, but if they move to ports then they'll need to
> be rebuilt everytime the libifconfig or kernel port, respectively,
> gets rebuilt.
>

Ah yes. That ABI would have to become stable on stable branches,
just like all other ABIs we support. Otherwise, you have to build for all
possibilities, which is tricky, or you have to have targeted binaries,
which
is tedious and error prone, especially for people who are running -stable
instead of a release point. Absent a stable ABI, all bets are off. I'm
surprised
it's not more stable: the rest of CAM is certainly ABI stable across
multiple
major FreeBSD releases.

pkg is close to providing the per-minor-release thing to try to solve the
drm-kmod / virtualbox .ko issues.

This is one of the features that would need to be fixed, imho, for pkgbase.
Though mostly that's because of the port .ko problem.

Warner