Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ?

[O. Hartmann]

On 06/03/12 15:12, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Adam Strohl
> <adams-freebsd at ateamsystems.com>wrote:
> 
>> On 6/3/2012 17:51, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote:
>>
>>> Always I am stressing that to manage FreeBSD,  a fair amount of expertise
>>> is required which I think this level may be reduced by improving the
>>> FreeBSD management by transferring knowledge to its managing parts ( for
>>> example : package management , repair of broken parts , installation steps
>>> to reach a state like in very easily usable Linux distributions such as
>>> Fedora , Mageia , Mandriva , and many others , etc. )
>>>
>>
>> Yeah or a GUI to reduce the need for knowledge transfer.
>>
>>  You know what to do by your expertise gained over use , which such an
>>> expertise is completely missing in a new comer , and even sometimes in
>>> very
>>> highly experienced computer professionals because a different operating
>>> system reduces them to a little experienced new starter .
>>>
>>>
>> I agree and your issue with USB sticks proves my point.  I've never tried
>> to mount an NTFS USB stick and I'm OK with that.  But for you it is a big
>> hassle (understandably so) and it has definitely negatively impacted your
>> view of FreeBSD.
>>
>>  Compare the cost of a Linux or Windows and personal time , and make a
>>> decision which one to choose .
>>>
>>> Another point frequently mentioned is that FreeBSD is leaned toward
>>> servers
>>> .
>>> Only I want to say that , "Please , install a CentOS , Debian , or Windows
>>> Server trial , and see how a server may be ..."
>>>
>>
>> I manage Windows, CentOS and Debian (and RedHat and a few others) servers
>> too.   I've found FreeBSD is more reliable on the whole and takes less time
>> to maintain (which means less expensive for my clients).  This is one area
>> where FreeBSD shines.  And when things do break it is possible to recover
>> fairly easily.  That is another.
>>
>> And yes, in terms of that initial learning curve my experience helps but
>> its the OS that is doing the work here.  If I was more experienced with
>> Windows or Linux it wouldn't make them any easier to update, either though.
>>  So there is a point at which "knowing what to do" stops being the limiting
>> issue and its just "ok well this is broken now and it can't be
>> cost-effectively fixed".   That crossover point is something that is almost
>> never reached with FreeBSD in my experience.
>>
>> All of this is completely parallel and unrelated to your (or another
>> person's) experience as a desktop user though.  What you see is "USB
>> thumbdrives don't work" :)   So you decide to use another OS, and probably
>> wouldn't advocate for FreeBSD if presented the chance in a server context
>> because of that experience.  That is a shame in my book. (I know I'm
>> putting words in your mouth but its simply to illustrate my thinking on how
>> public perception is formed).
>>
>>
> All of us are here for like and love for FreeBSD and to make it much more
> better than the present state .
> 
> Our goal is to identify gaps and missing parts to fill the gaps and to
> generate missing parts .
> 
> Without doing this it is unlikely that FreeBSD will advance by itself . We
> should be helpful to developers by bringing issues to agenda .
> 
> Actually and really FreeBSD is a very high quality operating system as a
> design and an implementation . With its that structure it is an important
> contribution to humanity welfare . For this , we really thank very much to
> its developers and supporters in any way .
> 
> All over the years , my most stressed issue is its "easiness of usability"
> , not for my own benefit but for the "normal" users . I can solve my
> problems in any way , but the other people are not so much experienced and
> they are living without benefiting from FreeBSD .
> 
> Since 1970 , I am in this area ( computing ) .
> 
> If there were NOT FreeBSD or Linux , we will , MOST LIKELY perhaps still
> use  a console mode operating system with painted by a useless windowing

... I highly doubt this view!

> program . If you remember the history , Intel 386 with its 32-bit structure
> appeared around 1985 , and a famous operating system , perhaps understood
> that there is no other way than doing this , produced its 32-bit , again
> painted console mode operating system at 1995 , after 10 years , perhaps
> because , their vision was that a 640 Kilo Bytes program would be much more
> than requirements of the people .

Well, I regeret that in most cases the most aggressiv nonsense makes the
run. This very famous operating system was no competition to so many
other window based operating systems that time. Most of the windowing
systems I remember of in that time where derived from X11 or Apples vision.

And, by the way, compared the Intel x86 legacy crap in my recent box
compared to the DEC Alpha AXP or the MIPS based platforms with either
OSF/1 or BSD/4.3 or 4.4 is much more hurting!

> 
> The contributions made by FreeBSD should NOT be forgotten .
> 
> 
> A few days ago I was suggesting to a professor to use a Unix which was very
> fond of computer usage too much at the beginning . He asked "Which Unix ?"
> . He is just a "user" in a different field than in "Computer Sciences and
> Engineering" . Which Unix you can advise to use by him ?

... it is ALL about PR! That is, why my department is driven by managers
and the IT by people which pretend having knowledge (they never where in
computer science and all their knowledge comes from fancy weekly magazines).

> 
> Please think alternatives : ( I am NOT trying to insult any one , please
> understand in that way . )
> 
> FreeBSD : Installation is now easy . Use : Impossible because of installed
> structure  .
> PC-BSD : Installation and then use is not possible ( I am trying each one
> by one , perhaps one day
>                I  can reach to a working release ) .
> GhostBSD : Installation is easy . Use is Easy . It is based on only GNOME .
>                   Personally I do NOT like GNOME very much and I am NOT
> using it .
> 
> Linux : ( Fedora , Mandriva , Mageia , and many others ) Wonderful  . I can
> not think any other choice other than LInux to suggest to ONLY a user which
> he/she will install and use the system .
> 
> Please , do NOT forget that server installers and maintainers are computer
> professionals having sufficient training to work on such a job .

You really believe this is in general that way? I can proff you wrong!

> 
> The point is this .
> 
> 
> Thank you very much .
> 
> Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 488 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/attachments/20120603/e6060ad2/signature.pgp