re changing from vista

[Wojciech Puchar]

>> improving FreeBSD, there wouldn't be a need to "convert".  "Build it
>> (and secure/stabilise it) and they will come".
>
> Indeed, what IS the value of more users to a volunteer project like
> FreeBSD?

to some level - better driver support. but 
windows-converters-seeking-for-nicer-windows don't write drivers.

this level is OK, more users can make only harm.

exactly what happened with linux.

as heavyweight "sponsors" did. they pay but request not just adding 
drivers but to add strange-but-trendy features and solutions that take 
system's quality down quickly.

exactly that happened to NetBSD. i recently installed newest NetBSD 
version just to look at it. it was damn slow and even slower under high 
load!!

not mentioning linux that got just billion$ total sposoring from IBM.

> Microsoft, Apple, etc. want more users on their OS because it increases
> their profits.  But who gets more money if ten thousand users switch to
> FreeBSD?

we - don't

FreeBSD developers may get, but not much more than now. but the danger of 
getting "heavyweight sponsor" is increasing.

> FreeBSD already has a large enough user base to attract the attention of
> developers deciding which platforms to target with their apps.  But even
> if it didn't, it has a large developer community of its own, and they've
> done a great job porting apps, as well as creating new apps themselves.  New

exactly. more users means more developers only to some amount!!

myself for example. i don't classify myself as expert, but IMHO i know 
more about unix than 80-90% people on that list, and i did no contribution 
except few sent-pr, some with patches!!

will adding 10 times more less-than-average skilled people help at all?

No - only make more mess, and will drive experienced unix users AWAY from 
FreeBSD just after reading that lists.

And yes - we WANT users of other unix-like systems to switch to FreeBSD
just because it's one of the best (if not the best) unix in the world.
And they WILL help making it even better.

> But why should we want to increase the number of ordinary, non-developer
> users?

we should NOT! i write  EVERY TIME about it.

> documentation or other non-programming tasks, then it makes sense to
> actively recruit them too.

is there much work needed on documentation.
it's EXCELLENT, contrary to linux with huge user base!

> software.  For example, my son is an animator and he and I have often
> discussed various graphics tools.  In his opinion, the Gimp is a

discussion about gimp and photoshop is OFF TOPIC.

it's not FreeBSD specific.

maybe discussion about gimp FreeBSD port - yes, but not about gimp itself 
and about it's pluses and minuses.

it's bad that over 50% of topics on that list (or more) are OFF TOPIC.

this list should have a moderator.

someone that will just keep this list on-topic. no questions like "how to 
do this and this in KDE" or "is program A better than program B", but 
questions like

"why KDE works faster/slower than under linux" or "why program A's 
function X crashes on FreeBSD, while working fine under Solaris" or

"i wrote program for linux some time ago. i want it to compile on FreeBSD, 
but i use XXXX library function that doesn't exist/work different on 
FreeBSD. what should i do?"

this list NEEDS A MODERATOR. DEFINITELY.

Even high skilled people keeps such off-topic thread going, because they 
want help someone. but it make a complete mess.