The future of fortune(6)

[Chris H]

On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:27:10 -0500 "Farhan Khan" <khanzf at gmail.com> said

> 
> On 11/28/2017 07:19 PM, Chris H wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:34:24 -0500 "Farhan Khan" <khanzf at gmail.com> said
> > 
> >> On 11/28/2017 05:11 PM, freebsd at johnea.net wrote:
> >> > On 2017-11-26 21:46, Cy Schubert wrote:
> >> >> In message <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19 at udns.ultimatedns.net>, 
> >> "Chris
> >> > H" writes:
> >> >>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert" 
> >> <Cy.Schubert at komquats.com>
> >> > said
> >> >>>> In message <20171126163259.6fb55366 at gumby.homeunix.com>, RW via
> >> > freebsd-hackers writes:
> >> >>>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Lastly. I'm not totally against games. My 4 and 5 year old 
> >> grandkids
> >> >>>>>> play games on game tablets. However I would never let my grandkids
> >> >>>>>> even see what fortune spits out. Much of it was offensive. I would
> >> >>>>>> have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs.
> >> > > This statement is factually incorrect.
> >> > > It just is not the case.
> >> > > I've received fortune in email every morning for about 14 years. 
> >> That's well
> >> > over 5000 fortunes. I've never seen even vaguely offensive content.
> >> > > The default settings do not deliver patently offensive content, 
> >> period.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> >>>>> You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by 
> >> default,
> >> >>>>> and:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> $ fortune -o
> >> >>>>> No fortunes found
> >> >>>>> in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune.
> >> >>>>
> >> > ...
> >> >>>> It's 2017. If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we?
> >> >>> OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going 
> >> to have
> >> > to
> >> >>> respond. :)
> >> >>> FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux. Who 
> >> cares if
> >> > some
> >> >>> other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it".
> >> >>> Sorry. I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all 
> >> the
> >> > Linux
> >> >>> flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be 
> >> "Linux
> >> > lik
> >> >>> e".
> >> >>> Over sensitive? Perhaps. But I simply couldn't resist.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'm done now. :)
> >> >>
> >> >> Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably 
> >> learned that
> >> >> contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and 
> >> the
> >> >> cost of supporting such software. FreeBSD is a volunteer effort.
> >> >> Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment 
> >> like ours.
> >> >>
> >> > > I have to agree with the negative reaction to the Red Hat comparison.
> >> > > Saying that FreeBSD obviously isn't linux doesn't address the 
> >> concern over
> >> > this comparison.
> >> > > If you think fortune is a flame war lightning rod, maybe you 
> >> haven't heard of
> >> > systemd?
> >> > > systemd is a Red Hat product.
> >> > > There are many different reasons for the controversy over systemd. 
> >> One of
> >> > them is that it removes the individuality of adopting distributions, 
> >> making
> >> > them more uniform. The corporation in charge of that uniformity 
> >> being Red Hat.
> >> > > People don't like the elimination of fortune for the same reason 
> >> they didn't
> >> > like the politically-correct-ification of beastie: It makes the OS 
> >> seem less
> >> > like something made by individuals for individuals, and more like a 
> >> polished,
> >> > "risk and exposure" averse, corporate product. In a word, dehumanized.
> >> > > johnea
> > Respectfully re-flowing your *disrespectful* Top Post
> >> (I write this with a respectful tone in my voice.)
> >>
> >> With respect, FreeBSD is an operating system, not a person to be 
> >> dehumanized. If you so strongly desire to run fortune, do a quick `pkg 
> >> install fortune`. You can continue to utilize this feature as you 
> >> please. Problem solved. No one is censoring anyone's speech, just 
> >> install it from the packages. It will likely take literally 2 seconds.
> >>
> >> Being relatively new to FreeBSD on my servers, I always found fortune 
> >> by default as unbecoming of an enterprise-class operating system. It 
> >> would be like having lolcats or cowsay on by default.
> >>
> >> You can continue to have the morning email with a fortune quote, you 
> >> will not lose that functionality. Everyone wins.
> >>
> > END re-flow
> > 
> > What I think many responding to this thread may not understand; is that
> > for some (many?) of us, the source referred to, we have been cobbling on,
> > and using for 30+ years. In fact fortune(6) (as Shawn noted earlier)
> > *predates* FreeBSD; or more accurately; the BSD. Point being; fortune(6)
> > (as well as it's growing data set) is a part of it's heritage. Call
> > it sentimental if you like. But there's not a hell-of-a-lot of that
> > heritage left. fortune' data set, for the most part, is quite harmless,
> > and often, fairly witty. You must directly request the portion that
> > (apparently) some might find offensive. But in reality, it's really
> > only references to part of global history. I experienced far worse than
> > this in my history classes in grade && high school. That being WWII
> > films that graphically depicted the atrocities imposed/inflicted on
> > so many the victims. Should we eliminate world history classes, because
> > some students might not like what they hear, and see? Hell, why not
> > eliminate school entirely then?
> > The point I'd like to make here; is that fortune(6), and it's
> > accompanying data sets are *not* harmful. They are one of the *few*
> > bits left of the *original* BSD, and should be allowed to stay as-is,
> > for posterity. Even tho many of the new-comers don't completely
> > understand.
> > 
> > Thank you for listening.
> > 
> > --Chris

Yet *another* reflow required due to *top posting* :(
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Thank you for your response. I must disagree.
> 
> A) If your concern is heritage, people can look into the BSD history. 
> This is readily available online.
> 
> B) If you feel there is utility, `pkg install fortune`. Everyone is happy.
> 
> I am not certain how my previous email came off as rude. Perhaps a loss 
> of tone in my voice over email? If you knew me in person, you would know 
> that I did not intend any disrespect.
Sorry. You seemed to have missed my inserts regarding your style of replies
eg; top posting
Which means; posting replies ABOVE the thread dialog. It completely
corrupts the flow (see; thread) and makes it impossible to follow along
in history -- especially from the archived FreeBSD mailing list. Answers
to questions will never be found. Answers will be left dangling, and make
no sense...
So (technically, and historically) this has always been considered; rude.
Nothing personal. Just felt it was important to point out.

--Chris out...

> 
> Thanks!
> Farhan
END reflow
> > 
> >