freebsd-doc Digest, Vol 260, Issue 4
Prasad ingole
prasad.freebsd at gmail.com
Thu Mar 20 15:34:22 UTC 2008
Hi Guys ...
Whatever technology u decide for creating voting stuff , please let mw know
the developement details , as I am very much inetersted in doing the
developement work . Learning and experimenting with new language for that
matter , will be reaaly interseting for me ...
Please finalise soon ...
Regards,
Prasad
On 3/20/08, freebsd-doc-request at freebsd.org <freebsd-doc-request at freebsd.org>
wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: docs/121821: [patch] wpa_supplicant.conf.5 - provide
> pointer to sample configuration file (John Baldwin)
> 2. Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for
> freebsd.org (Murray Stokely)
> 3. mount_devfs in handbook (Tom Van Looy)
> 4. Re: docs/121838: [patch] add portmaster(8) section to ports
> chapter of the handbook (Doug Barton)
> 5. Re: amd64/121863: IPSEC handbook update for FreeBSD 7 and
> later (bz at FreeBSD.org)
> 6. Re: docs/121871: ftpd does interpret configuration files as
> documented (linimon at FreeBSD.org)
> 7. Re: conf/121871: ftpd does interpret configuration files as
> documented (Vadim Goncharov)
> 8. Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for
> freebsd.org (Vadim Goncharov)
> 9. Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for
> freebsd.org (Vadim Goncharov)
> 10. Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for
> freebsd.org (Vadim Goncharov)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:13:23 -0400
> From: John Baldwin <jhb at freebsd.org>
> Subject: Re: docs/121821: [patch] wpa_supplicant.conf.5 - provide
> pointer to sample configuration file
> To: freebsd-doc at freebsd.org, Sam Leffler <sam at freebsd.org>
> Message-ID: <200803190913.24046.jhb at freebsd.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
>
> On Tuesday 18 March 2008 05:40:04 pm Sam Leffler wrote:
> > The following reply was made to PR docs/121821; it has been noted by
> GNATS.
> >
> > From: Sam Leffler <sam at freebsd.org>
> > To: John Baldwin <jhb at freebsd.org>
> > Cc: freebsd-doc at freebsd.org, Edwin Groothuis <edwin at mavetju.org>,
> > FreeBSD-gnats-submit at freebsd.org
> > Subject: Re: docs/121821: [patch] wpa_supplicant.conf.5 - provide
> pointer
> > to sample configuration file
> > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:18:52 -0700
> >
> > John Baldwin wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 18 March 2008 05:03:29 am Edwin Groothuis wrote:
> > >>> Number: 121821
> > >>> Category: docs
> > >>> Synopsis: [patch] wpa_supplicant.conf.5 - provide pointer to
> > >>> sample configuration file Confidential: no
> > >>> Severity: non-critical
> > >>> Priority: low
> > >>> Responsible: freebsd-doc
> > >>> State: open
> > >>> Quarter:
> > >>> Keywords:
> > >>> Date-Required:
> > >>> Class: change-request
> > >>> Submitter-Id: current-users
> > >>> Arrival-Date: Tue Mar 18 09:10:01 UTC 2008
> > >>> Closed-Date:
> > >>> Last-Modified:
> > >>> Originator: Edwin Groothuis
> > >>> Release: FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE i386
> > >>> Organization:
> > >>
> > >> -
> > >>
> > >>> Environment:
> > >>
> > >> System: FreeBSD k7.mavetju 6.3-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE #0: Sun
> Feb
> > >> 17 22:11:52 EST 2008 edwin at k7.mavetju:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/SMP
> > >> i386
> > >>
> > >>> Description:
> > >>
> > >> It took me a while to figure out how to properly use a WEP (silly
> > >> Nintendo DS doesn't know about WPA so I needed to reconfigure my
> > >> network) configuration. Once I had read through the
> wpa_supplicant.conf
> > >> in /usr/src/contrib/wpa_supplicant it was clear at once.
> > >>
> > >>> How-To-Repeat:
> > >>> Fix:
> > >>
> > >> Index: wpa_supplicant.conf.5
> > >> ===================================================================
> > >> RCS file:
> > >> /home/ncvs/src/usr.sbin/wpa/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf.5,v
> > >> retrieving revision 1.9
> > >> diff -u -r1.9 wpa_supplicant.conf.5
> > >> --- wpa_supplicant.conf.5 11 Jul 2007 16:04:08 -0000 1.9
> > >> +++ wpa_supplicant.conf.5 18 Mar 2008 08:59:02 -0000
> > >> @@ -518,6 +518,11 @@
> > >> wep_key0=42FEEDDEAFBABEDEAFBEEFAA55
> > >> }
> > >> .Ed
> > >> +.Pp
> > >> +More examples can be found in the supplied
> > >> +.Pa wpa_supplicant.conf
> > >> +in
> > >> +.Pa /usr/src/contrib/wpa_supplicant/ .
> > >> .Sh SEE ALSO
> > >> .Xr wpa_cli 8 ,
> > >> .Xr wpa_passphrase 8 ,
> > >
> > > This should
> > > reference /usr/share/examples/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
> > > instead since HEAD installs it there and /usr/src/ is not installed
> on
> > > all machines.
> > >
> > > BTW, it seems to me that wpa_supplicant.conf should just go
> > > in /usr/share/examples/etc/ since it lives in /etc and is only a
> single
> > > file rather than having its own subdirectory.
> >
> > I believe there were other files that could go in examples and/or I
> > followed existing practice from another app. But feel free to change
> it.
>
> Hmm, so there is the src/contrib/wpa_supplicant/examples subdirectory
> which
> contains some simple examples. Do you think those are suitable to
> install?
>
> Also, my path above is wrong it is /usr/share/examples/wpa_supplicant (no
> etc)
> which is quite common among other apps and I wouldn't move it from
> there. A
> nested directory in etc would have been odd, but that isn't the case. :)
>
> --
> John Baldwin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:19:27 -0700
> From: "Murray Stokely" <murray at stokely.org>
> Subject: Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for
> freebsd.org
> To: "Jeremy Chadwick" <koitsu at freebsd.org>
> Cc: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight at mail.ru>, freebsd-doc at freebsd.org
> Message-ID:
> <2a7894eb0803190819la4fe2e4pc8a38187343b9e96 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Apparently there is a MoinMoin plugin for voting that we're going to
> look at. This doesn't really seem to be exactly what we're looking
> for because we are not looking to hold elections -- we want to accept
> new items, allow users to vote and comment on existing items, and
> present a sorted list of the most highly ranked items, so I'd still be
> happy if anyone can present other solutions we should investigate.
>
> - Murray
>
> On 3/19/08, Jeremy Chadwick <koitsu at freebsd.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 08:21:01AM +0000, Vadim Goncharov wrote:
> > > >> No. Not PHP. Ever. Forget.
> > > >>
> > > >> It should at least cgi or, as aforemetioned, a wiki-like page.
> There can be
> > > >> already some wiki engines which allow voting.
> > > > I've not seen any useful voting mechanism implemented on a wiki.
> > > > Pointers? CGI is exactly the kind of 15 year old stagnant web
> > > > technology we are trying to get away from. We need quick
> templating,
> > > > sessions, high level UI libraries, etc..
> > >
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > > > All of which things like PHP, Python/Django, etc.. provide.
> > >
> > > They all provide, except PHP :) Every serious PHP project is
> reinventing
> > > template system, database abastraction layers
> >
> >
> > Because PHP's DBI implementation sucks horribly. One of the worst
> > things about it is that it doesn't support placeholders/binds in query
> > strings. Another horrible aspect is that there's a separate API
> > function name per DBI, rather than using a standard calling convention
> > and let you pick a database driver to use (like perl and most other
> > languages).
> >
> > The only reason people use PHP -- and that includes me (yes, I speak
> > fluent PHP) -- is because it's *convenient*. It interfaces with
> > webservers in a much "nicer" way, and has a significant number of API
> > functions that are more web-friendly than, say, perl.
> >
> > And don't even get me started on how to debug PHP. I hope you enjoy
> > using print/echo repetitively throughout code.
> >
> > I have no interest in Python, because any language which treats
> > whitespace and tabs differently can rot (even assemblers don't behave
> > this way!). And I will strangle whoever recommends Ruby or Ruby on
> > Rails.
> >
> >
> > > > - Murray (who doesn't know/use PHP, but knows that the
> freebsd
> > > > web presence is notably missing something like it)
> > >
> > > Anything but PHP. Don't choose that buggy, slow, immanently insecure
> > > technology. Please.
> > >
> > > P.S. You can see http://tnx.nl/php for a short summary of PHP
> drawbacks. Even
> > > Perl is much better.
> >
> >
> > I would agree with this. One can accomplish great things with
> > p5-libwww.
> >
> > The existing CMSs out there (for both PHP and perl) are either horribly
> > written, or bloated beyond belief. The same goes for most Wiki
> > software, again regardless of PHP or perl.
> >
> > Then again, all said comments are coming from a person who's very much
> a
> > minimalist. :-)
> >
> >
> > --
> > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at
> parodius.com |
> > | Parodius Networking
> http://www.parodius.com/ |
> > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA,
> USA |
> > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP:
> 4BD6C0CB |
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > freebsd-doc at freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-doc
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-doc-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:48:37 +0000
> From: "Tom Van Looy" <assarix at pandora.be>
> Subject: mount_devfs in handbook
> To: freebsd-doc at freebsd.org
> Message-ID: <W452841749648361205945317 at nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi I found a mount_devfs in the handbook, I think this is wrong because
> the command is not on my system (7.0 release). I suggest it needs to be
> corrected as below.
>
> --- jails-build.html.old 2008-03-19 08:08:38.424074900 +0100
> +++ jails-build.html 2008-03-19 08:09:34.471146500 +0100
> @@ -61,7 +61,7 @@
> class="USERINPUT">make distribution DESTDIR=$D</kbd> <a id="JAILDISTRIB"
> name="JAILDISTRIB"><img src="./imagelib/callouts/3.png" hspace="0"
> vspace="0" border="0"
> alt="(3)" /></a>
> -<samp class="PROMPT">#</samp> <kbd class="USERINPUT">mount_devfs devfs
> $D/dev</kbd> <a
> +<samp class="PROMPT">#</samp> <kbd class="USERINPUT">mount -t devfs devfs
> $D/dev</kbd> <a
> id="JAILDEVFS" name="JAILDEVFS"><img src="./imagelib/callouts/4.png"
> hspace="0"
> vspace="0" border="0" alt="(4)" /></a>
> </pre>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:40:02 GMT
> From: Doug Barton <dougb at FreeBSD.org>
> Subject: Re: docs/121838: [patch] add portmaster(8) section to ports
> chapter of the handbook
> To: freebsd-doc at FreeBSD.org
> Message-ID: <200803191840.m2JIe2DW029289 at freefall.freebsd.org>
>
> The following reply was made to PR docs/121838; it has been noted by
> GNATS.
>
> From: Doug Barton <dougb at FreeBSD.org>
> To: John Ferrell <jdferrell3 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit at FreeBSD.org
> Subject: Re: docs/121838: [patch] add portmaster(8) section to ports
> chapter
> of the handbook
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:12:52 -0700
>
> John Ferrell wrote:
> >> Number: 121838
> >> Category: docs
> >> Synopsis: [patch] add portmaster(8) section to ports chapter of
> the handbook
> >> Confidential: no
> >> Severity: non-critical
> >> Priority: low
> >> Responsible: freebsd-doc
> >> State: open
> >> Quarter:
> >> Keywords:
> >> Date-Required:
> >> Class: change-request
> >> Submitter-Id: current-users
> >> Arrival-Date: Tue Mar 18 19:20:01 UTC 2008
> >> Closed-Date:
> >> Last-Modified:
> >> Originator: John Ferrell
> >> Release: 7.0
> >> Organization:
> >> Environment:
> > FreeBSD fbsd.local 7.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE #0: Mon Mar 10
> 18:30:02 EDT 2008 root at fbsd.local:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/JDF i386
> >
> >> Description:
> > Patch to add a section on portmaster(8) to the ports chapter of the
> handbook.
> >
> > Note: I submitted a patch, 'docs/121648: [patch] add portmaster(8) to
> man-refs.ent', that this patch relies on.
> >> How-To-Repeat:
> >
> >> Fix:
> > --- chapter.sgml.orig 2008-03-11 12:46:26.000000000 -0400
> > +++ chapter.sgml 2008-03-18 14:07:22.000000000 -0400
> > @@ -1293,6 +1293,97 @@
> >
> > <para>For further information see &man.portmanager.1;.</para>
> > </sect3>
> > +
> > + <sect3 id="portmaster">
> > + <title>Upgrading Ports using Portmaster</title>
> > +
> > + <indexterm>
> > + <primary>portmaster</primary>
> > + </indexterm>
> > +
> > + <para><application>Portmaster</application> is yet another utility
> for
> > + upgrading installed ports. <application>Portmaster</application>
> > + was designed make use of the tools found in the
> <quote>base</quote>
> > + system (it does not depend upon any other ports) and uses the
> > + information in <filename
> class="directory">/var/db/pkg/</filename>
> > + to determine which ports to upgrade. It is available from
> the
> > + <filename role="package">ports-mgmt/portmaster</filename>
> port:</para>
> > +
> > + <screen>&prompt.root; <userinput>cd <filename
> role="directory">/usr/ports/ports-mgmt/portmaster</filename></userinput>
> > +&prompt.root; <userinput>make install clean</userinput></screen>
> > +
> > + <para><application>Portmaster</application> groups ports into
> four
> > + categories:</para>
> > +
> > + <itemizedlist>
> > + <listitem>
> > + <para>Root ports (no dependencies, not depended on)</para>
> > + </listitem>
> > + <listitem>
> > + <para>Trunk ports (no dependencies, are depended on)</para>
> > + </listitem>
> > + <listitem>
> > + <para>Branch ports (have dependencies, are depended
> on)</para>
> > + </listitem>
> > + <listitem>
> > + <para>Leaf ports (have dependencies, not depended
> on)</para>
> > + </listitem>
> > + </itemizedlist>
> > +
> > + <para>You can list all the installed ports and search
> > + for updates using the <option>-L</option> option:</para>
> > +
> > +<screen>&prompt.root; <userinput>portmaster -L</userinput>
> > +===>>> Root ports (No dependencies, not depended on)
> > +===>>> ispell-3.2.06_18
> > +===>>> screen-4.0.3
> > + ===>>> New version available: screen-4.0.3_1
> > +===>>> tcpflow-0.21_1
> > +===>>> 7 root ports
> > +...
> > +===>>> Branch ports (Have dependencies, are depended on)
> > +===>>> apache-2.2.3
> > + ===>>> New version available: apache-2.2.8
> > +...
> > +===>>> Leaf ports (Have dependencies, not depended on)
> > +===>>> automake-1.9.6_2
> > +===>>> bash-3.1.17
> > + ===>>> New version available: bash-3.2.33
> > +...
> > +===>>> 32 leaf ports
> > +
> > +===>>> 137 total installed ports
> > + ===>>> 83 have new versions available
> > +</screen>
> > +
> > + <para>All the installed ports can be upgraded using this simple
> > + command:</para>
> > +
> > + <screen>&prompt.root; <userinput>portmaster -a</userinput></screen>
> > +
> > + <note><para>By default, <application>Portmaster</application>
> > + will make a backup package before deleting the existing
> port. If
> > + the installation of the new version is successful,
> > + <application>Portmaster</application> will delete the backup.
> > + Using the <option>-b</option> will instruct
> > + <application>Portmaster</application> not to automatically
> delete
> > + the backup. Also, adding the <option>-i</option> option will
> start
> > + <application>Portmaster</application> in interactive mode,
> prompting
> > + you before upgrading each port.</para></note>
> > +
> > + <para>If you encounter errors during the upgrade process, you
> can use
> > + the <option>-f</option> option to upgrade/rebuild all
> ports:</para>
> > +
> > + <screen>&prompt.root; <userinput>portmaster
> -af</userinput></screen>
> > +
> > + <para>You can also use <application>Portmaster</application> to
> > + install new ports on the system, upgrading all dependencies
> > + before building and installing the new port:</para>
> > +
> > + <screen>&prompt.root; <userinput>portmaster -p
> <replaceable>/usr/ports/shells/bash</replaceable></userinput></screen>
> > +
> > + <para>Please see &man.portmaster.8; from more information.</para>
> > + </sect3>
> > </sect2>
> >
> > <sect2 id="ports-disk-space">
>
> Thank you _very much_ for writing this, it's been on my "list" for a
> long time, and I wasn't going to get to it any time soon. :) I would
> only suggest two very tiny edits. One is to remove the word "yet" in
> the first sentence. The other is to shorten the command line at the
> end, since the -p option is more or less irrelevant with the new
> command line parser from version 2.x. I would say:
>
> <userinput>portmaster <replaceable>shells/bash</replaceable></userinput>
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
> This .signature sanitized for your protection
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:48:41 GMT
> From: bz at FreeBSD.org
> Subject: Re: amd64/121863: IPSEC handbook update for FreeBSD 7 and
> later
> To: energizer at sgpi.ru, bz at FreeBSD.org, bz at FreeBSD.org,
> freebsd-doc at FreeBSD.org
> Message-ID: <200803191948.m2JJmfjr035184 at freefall.freebsd.org>
>
> Old Synopsis: amd-64 7.0-RELEASE FreeBSD IPSEC FAST_IPSEC()
> New Synopsis: IPSEC handbook update for FreeBSD 7 and later
>
> State-Changed-From-To: closed->open
> State-Changed-By: bz
> State-Changed-When: Wed Mar 19 19:47:12 UTC 2008
> State-Changed-Why:
> Re-open with changed Synopsis to refelect the real problem.
> Reassign to doc as suggested.
>
>
> Responsible-Changed-From-To: bz->freebsd-doc
> Responsible-Changed-By: bz
> Responsible-Changed-When: Wed Mar 19 19:47:12 UTC 2008
> Responsible-Changed-Why:
> Re-open with changed Synopsis to refelect the real problem.
> Reassign to doc as suggested.
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=121863
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:02:20 GMT
> From: linimon at FreeBSD.org
> Subject: Re: docs/121871: ftpd does interpret configuration files as
> documented
> To: linimon at FreeBSD.org, freebsd-bugs at FreeBSD.org,
> freebsd-doc at FreeBSD.org
> Message-ID: <200803200802.m2K82Kid009003 at freefall.freebsd.org>
>
> Synopsis: ftpd does interpret configuration files as documented
>
> Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->freebsd-doc
> Responsible-Changed-By: linimon
> Responsible-Changed-When: Thu Mar 20 08:01:15 UTC 2008
> Responsible-Changed-Why:
> This sounds like a documentation problem.
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=121871
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:40:03 GMT
> From: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight at mail.ru>
> Subject: Re: conf/121871: ftpd does interpret configuration files as
> documented
> To: freebsd-doc at FreeBSD.org
> Message-ID: <200803200940.m2K9e3hN017211 at freefall.freebsd.org>
>
> The following reply was made to PR docs/121871; it has been noted by
> GNATS.
>
> From: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight at mail.ru>
> To: Josh Webb <joshwebb at gmail.com>
> Cc: bug-followup at freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: conf/121871: ftpd does interpret configuration files as
> documented
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:39:07 +0600
>
> Hi Josh Webb!
>
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:47:19 GMT; Josh Webb <joshwebb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 3) A single line in ftpd.conf:
> > chroot all %d
> > The documentation seems to indicate that this should match all users and
> chroot them to their home directories.
> > I have not been able to get any results from the chroot command in
> ftpd.conf
>
> May be you're trying to use ftpd.conf with ftpd(8), but actually there are
> TWO
> ftp daemons in base system, and ftpd.conf(5) man page is for lukemftpd(8).
> The latter is obtained from NetBSD and more featureful, but does not
> support
> sendfile(2).
>
> This can be not only documentation problem, but a buildworld config too,
> as
> about two daemons installed at the SAME time.
>
> --
> WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nuclight at mail.ru
> [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight
> ]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:16:35 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight at mail.ru>
> Subject: Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for
> freebsd.org
> To: freebsd-doc at freebsd.org
> Message-ID: <slrnfu4ec3.1b5e.vadim_nuclight at hostel.avtf.net>
>
> Hi Marc Silver!
>
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:59:02 +0200; Marc Silver wrote about 'Re: Need an
> environment for dynamic web content for freebsd.org':
>
> > While I agree that PHP isn't perfect, it is still possible to write
> secure,
> > fast and scalable code with it.
>
> Yes, but it will cost you a lot more and even then you will not be secure
> due
> to all those constantly discovered in each new version flaws in the PHP
> interpreter itself.
>
> > It's just as easy for a bad programmer to
> > write bad perl code as it is for them to write bad PHP code.
>
> Yes, but there more bad PHP programmers than Perl programmers :)
>
> > The one thing I don't like about Perl is that there is too much of a
> > reliance on third party modules for just about everything.
>
> This is normal way for every programming language. Do you complain C or
> Java
> that you have so many third-party libraries instead of all being inside
> libc,
> eh?
>
> > At least PHP has
> > (most) of what you need built in. Bottom line is that there are pros
> and
> > cons to just about every language out there.
>
> Yes, but there are statistics.
>
> > That said, I'm quite fond of python/pylons/django so I don't mind what
> > happens, but it's not really fair to write off PHP just because so many
> > developers who use it are rubbish.
>
> This is not the only reason, of course - I've given a link to PHP
> disadvantages
> summary in message to Murray.
>
> --
> WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nuclight at mail.ru
> [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight
> ]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:36:01 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight at mail.ru>
> Subject: Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for
> freebsd.org
> To: freebsd-doc at freebsd.org
> Message-ID: <slrnfu4fgh.1b5e.vadim_nuclight at hostel.avtf.net>
>
> Hi Jeremy Chadwick!
>
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:16:59 -0700; Jeremy Chadwick wrote about 'Re: Need
> an environment for dynamic web content for freebsd.org':
>
> >>>> It should at least cgi or, as aforemetioned, a wiki-like page. There
> can be
> >>>> already some wiki engines which allow voting.
> >>> I've not seen any useful voting mechanism implemented on a wiki.
> >>> Pointers? CGI is exactly the kind of 15 year old stagnant web
> >>> technology we are trying to get away from. We need quick templating,
> >>> sessions, high level UI libraries, etc..
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >>> All of which things like PHP, Python/Django, etc.. provide.
> >>
> >> They all provide, except PHP :) Every serious PHP project is
> reinventing
> >> template system, database abastraction layers
> > Because PHP's DBI implementation sucks horribly. One of the worst
> > things about it is that it doesn't support placeholders/binds in query
> > strings. Another horrible aspect is that there's a separate API
> > function name per DBI, rather than using a standard calling convention
> > and let you pick a database driver to use (like perl and most other
> > languages).
>
> And absent templates and slow speed. Because Zend wants to *sell* PHP
> optimizer.
>
> > The only reason people use PHP -- and that includes me (yes, I speak
> > fluent PHP) -- is because it's *convenient*.
>
> Easier for totally dumb housewife, you mean? That's true, and that's why
> it is popular amongst novice users. But for projects more serious than
> a homepage it can quickly become a pain in the ass.
>
> > It interfaces with
> > webservers in a much "nicer" way, and has a significant number of API
> > functions that are more web-friendly than, say, perl.
>
> Then you should try several Perl modules to do, for templates and other.
> Even
> plain CGI is a good start point :)
>
> > And don't even get me started on how to debug PHP. I hope you enjoy
> > using print/echo repetitively throughout code.
>
> Do you mean putting errors on the web page and revealing paths, SQL
> schemas,
> etc. to possible attacker? Oh, no, thanks.
>
> > I have no interest in Python, because any language which treats
> > whitespace and tabs differently can rot (even assemblers don't behave
> > this way!). And I will strangle whoever recommends Ruby or Ruby on
> > Rails.
>
> That's debatable, but not the scope of PHP badness :)
>
> >>> - Murray (who doesn't know/use PHP, but knows that the freebsd
> >>> web presence is notably missing something like it)
> >>
> >> Anything but PHP. Don't choose that buggy, slow, immanently insecure
> >> technology. Please.
> >>
> >> P.S. You can see http://tnx.nl/php for a short summary of PHP
> drawbacks. Even
> >> Perl is much better.
> > I would agree with this. One can accomplish great things with
> > p5-libwww.
> > The existing CMSs out there (for both PHP and perl) are either horribly
> > written, or bloated beyond belief. The same goes for most Wiki
> > software, again regardless of PHP or perl.
>
> Every serious project can't rely on public CMS - this not looks solid.
> LiveJournal.com, SlashDot.com, etc. million-users sites - all have their
> own software written in Perl.
>
> > Then again, all said comments are coming from a person who's very much a
> > minimalist. :-)
>
> I am a minimalist. too :)
>
> --
> WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nuclight at mail.ru
> [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight
> ]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:43:00 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight at mail.ru>
> Subject: Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for
> freebsd.org
> To: freebsd-doc at freebsd.org
> Message-ID: <slrnfu4ftj.1b5e.vadim_nuclight at hostel.avtf.net>
>
> Hi Murray Stokely!
>
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:19:27 -0700; Murray Stokely wrote about 'Re: Need
> an environment for dynamic web content for freebsd.org':
>
> > Apparently there is a MoinMoin plugin for voting that we're going to
> > look at. This doesn't really seem to be exactly what we're looking
> > for because we are not looking to hold elections -- we want to accept
> > new items, allow users to vote and comment on existing items, and
> > present a sorted list of the most highly ranked items, so I'd still be
> > happy if anyone can present other solutions we should investigate.
>
> Then it should be patched to be, isn't it? I am not sure there exist exact
> solution of what you want.
>
> BTW, in terms of language comparison and advocacy it is better to build
> this
> on Java's JSP, thus showing that FreeBSD perfectly supports "serious
> corporate
> solutions" :)
>
> And PHP has too may vulnerbilities _in_ _the_ _interpreter_ _itself_ - no
> matter how good PHP programmer avoids bugs in web application if server
> itself
> is vulnerables. Patches and setup could avoid damaging root and other
> users,
> but who cares if it is enough to deface a site and make such a bad PR for
> FreeBSD Project?..
>
> --
> WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nuclight at mail.ru
> [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight
> ]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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