From nobody Fri Feb 02 13:28:51 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-virtualization@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TRGpL3tWkz58llL for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 13:29:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x635.google.com (mail-ej1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::635]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TRGpK6njXz46Pj for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 13:29:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x635.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a318ccfe412so236712366b.1 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 05:29:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706880568; x=1707485368; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zZy2Kpt+I0vdR2sAUxDZ/t9iacBXb+f3cvJi0JbN/Rs=; b=JC/lirbbJHbLxs0ZQ2Td+cdZWcyquvF+un5IM60R3pvjwb08PgFJapPnC7ZBb4TKvH 4OjgIADXfOtSHywwpW9U9QhfSoR8rpszp1Lo5wSenR2rkPFU/iCRTt8V+vNcfhi5eIny OUVEPEd9lybS6O3sV9HTiQ5SuVeNIyKsSw78tuz8QWs37y+cklYM5806Cqoot8zj+Ehy NqnsWpWqRpcG/jnjrrgRcHQ6TFsSQXEfcw/Zc+ySy15/Ncb4rYXwaMs5qzFXQJrYe0e5 BTpP+u2+kTEvVQqQcpgnZMw0/dTmcu/QLoxGmQf5IIt4L2DbvOTtDjk+Vtw4IsA4CEPs pEoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706880568; x=1707485368; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zZy2Kpt+I0vdR2sAUxDZ/t9iacBXb+f3cvJi0JbN/Rs=; b=KBxf4yK/l8I9mAKqCi0hDd8jX8kB2RJDqP/T2l5VyZ4/y7UgunRp4zFfKEhygGR1UQ fb1c/yoPp89E5lR40RCXBDZTwxg3b4q6+Q+FDv8OIAqra7DU0ylai4WZB1mHxbp+HAj5 wfp2r82cppyohFCPbqVNHjEPFoIAve1AYrywVJYNjBO9BneCwLRxdzavUtmKGiuZ5SNX BDpPl3qwO7lvqrQsVypj4eB1XnyLvE1Mvwd2O3OkoZtFxA8bmJIvr1bzQm7yfjWIbWZG kHpvwDnmsaL1HHkh3jDAqtOt0Xy+zlCLJnR2//L2+A/FH1kgiILISZE2aNvEnBXf3Gc/ WmcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyy+rksMNyKbYXgzQUXhZb2MAIW0d+VD3Nnk8TH45TptW13CuLy /ViSRvUaQGyVk/Jb1OKMi6p55Rw+k/9msk+EBimXad25uil/CgNftQh7S6fmzqeJuxUR7KYlO7T 2MeiTH73t871Sr+4tEbANRQQDJ1zQXX6o2aUslw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHNxTQxP7mMQh3HwKG+5nii19wAmEV1PSgP1cshY4B3VRpSxWC31TpXjPgiIRIO+j/hVYXF2setNBRpuG9OD+0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:2da6:b0:a35:6a61:e3dc with SMTP id gt38-20020a1709072da600b00a356a61e3dcmr1861378ejc.16.1706880567466; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 05:29:27 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussion List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-virtualization List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mario Marietto Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 14:28:51 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: If we are so opposed to Docker and Kubernetes, what is the real alternative on BSD? To: Alejandro Imass Cc: Paul Vixie , FreeBSD virtualization Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e5dee20610661905" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TRGpK6njXz46Pj X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] --000000000000e5dee20610661905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alejandro,I'm not sure if you are aware that the discussion at a certain point has broadened and deepened. I don't understand why I can't propose an alternative to the actual jail and jail managers that you are talking about. And no. On the L4 website there is a userland based on new versions of Ubuntu and Debian that can be used with the microkernel offered. They also say that FreeBSD can be compiled,too,using the same technique used to build the Linux userland proposed. If you want to talk about containers,why not also add the microkernel topic,that's not a container,but its working can be compared to the microservices offered by Linux and FreeBSD if they run with a microkernel. On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 1:30=E2=80=AFPM Alejandro Imass wrote: > > > On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 12:40=E2=80=AFAM Mario Marietto > wrote: > >> Excuse me. I'm not very experienced,but isn't the L4 or any other >> microkernel a valid alternative to containers ? If I have understood >> correctly how it works,it allows multiple instances of the various servi= ces >> implemented within the microkernel OS. How many instances can we have ? = For >> example in the L4 Linux kernel webpage it is explained that it can boot >> FreeBSD in cooperation with Linux. It works like xen. WIth xen we can ha= ve >> multiple virtual machines. But xen today has been preferred to kvm. And >> anyway,we always talk about monolithic kernels. So,I want to ask : is a >> microkernel OS a valid alternative to the containers ? If it allows to r= un >> only some services of the "virtualized" os,why not use it ? Why not inve= st >> effort and time to implement this solution as an alternative to the >> containers that FreeBSD already has ? Personally I like the idea of seei= ng >> Linux and FreeBSD work together. >> >> > IMHO, way beyond the scope of this thread. AFAIK neither Linux nor FreeBS= D > are microkernels. > > The original question is more like what would it take to run k8s natively > using different jail managers like CBSD and BastilleBSD as drivers? > Does it already exist? maybe: https://github.com/tnorlin/kubernetes > What is the state? What are the limitations? > etc. etc. > > > > --=20 Mario. --000000000000e5dee20610661905 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alejandro,I'm not sure if you are aware that the discu= ssion at a certain point has broadened a= nd deepened. I don't understand why I can't propose an alternative = to the actual jail and jail managers that you are talking about. And no. On= the L4 website there is a userland based on new versions of Ubuntu and Deb= ian that can be used with the microkernel offered. They also say that FreeB= SD can be compiled,too,using the same technique used to build the Linux use= rland proposed. If you want to talk about containers,why not also add the m= icrokernel topic,that's not a container,but its working can be compared= to the microservices offered by Linux and FreeBSD if they run with a micro= kernel.


On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 1:30=E2=80=AFPM Alejan= dro Imass <aimass@yabarana.com> wrote:


On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 12:40=E2=80=AFAM = Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
Excuse me. I'm not very expe= rienced,but isn't the L4 or any other microkernel a valid alternative t= o containers ? If I have understood correctly how it works,it allows multip= le instances of the various services implemented within the microkernel OS.= How many instances can we have ? For example in the L4 Linux kernel webpag= e it is explained that it can=C2=A0boot FreeBSD in cooperation with Linux. = It works like xen. WIth xen we can have multiple virtual machines. But xen = today has been preferred to kvm. And anyway,we always talk about monolithic= kernels. So,I want to ask : is a microkernel OS a valid alternative to the= containers ? If it allows to run only some services of the "virtualiz= ed" os,why not use it ? Why not invest effort and time to implement th= is solution as an alternative to the containers that FreeBSD already has ? = Personally I like the idea of seeing Linux and FreeBSD work together.
<= /div>


IMHO, way beyond the scope of this thread. AFAIK neither Li= nux nor FreeBSD are microkernels.=C2=A0

The origin= al question is more like what would it take to run k8s natively using diffe= rent jail managers like CBSD and BastilleBSD as drivers?
Does it = already exist? maybe:=C2=A0https://github.com/tnorlin/kubernetes
Wha= t is the state? What are the limitations?
etc. etc.

=C2=A0


--
Mario.
--000000000000e5dee20610661905--