From nobody Sat Nov 18 09:29:08 2023 X-Original-To: stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SXT4N68ZKz50qXP for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:29:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (plan-b.pwste.edu.pl [IPv6:2001:678:618::40]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "plan-b.pwste.edu.pl", Issuer "GEANT OV RSA CA 4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SXT4M3xq3z3dbs for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:29:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl header.s=plan-b-mailer header.b=q+VqEqmm; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl has no SPF policy when checking 2001:678:618::40) smtp.mailfrom=zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; 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boundary="------------1LEAolnHsw39SK3qkkf3oM0i" Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 10:29:08 +0100 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: csh to sh migration for root in RELENG_14 To: stable@freebsd.org References: <6c6add3c-4a5e-4d84-9964-9a9448a36c95@sentex.net> <25943.49653.523313.53953@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> Content-Language: en-US From: Marek Zarychta Autocrypt: addr=zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; keydata= xsBNBFfi3cMBCADLecMTFXad4uDXqv3eRuB4qJJ8G9tzzFezeRnnwxOsPdytW5ES2z1ibSrR IsiImx6+PTqrAmXpTInxAi7yiZGdSiONRI4CCxKY9d1YFiNYT/2WyNXCekm9x29YeIU7x0JB Llbz0f/9HC+styBIu2H+PY/X98Clzm110CS+n/b9l1AtiGxTiVFj7/uavYAKxH6LNWnbkuc5 v8EVNc7NkEcl5h7Z9X5NEtzDxTOiBIFQ/kOT7LAtkYUPo1lqLeOM2DtWSXTXQgXl0zJI4iP1 OAu4qQYm2nXwq4b2AH9peknelvnt1mpfgDCGSKnhc26q6ibTfMwydp+tvUtQIQYpA6b9ABEB AAHNN01hcmVrIFphcnljaHRhIChQbGFuLWIpIDx6YXJ5Y2h0YW1AcGxhbi1iLnB3c3RlLmVk dS5wbD7CwHcEEwEIACEFAlfi4LkCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQHZW8 vIFppoJXdgf8D9X3VRFSNaR9lthSx/+uqas17J3FJKBo1xMQsC2a+44vzNvYJSuPGLLJ+LW2 HPVazjP/BWZJbxOYpliY4zxNRU0YCp0BLIVLibc//yax+mE42FND/+NiIZhqJscl6MLPrSwo sIwXec4XYkldkyqW/xBbBYXoIkBqdKB9j5j42Npy1IV/RizOSdmvTWY27ir8e/yGMR1RLr4F 8P5K3OWTdlGy2H2F/3J8bIPBLG6FpaIyLQw4dHSx8V02PYqDxK1cNo2kAOnU8PnZL/AGuMOH iv3MN1VYL8ehcmpBBsrZGebQJxrjY2/5IaTSgp9xHYT70kshuU6Qb97vk1mOjNZxgc7ATQRX 4t3DAQgA10h6RCXuBLMHxq5B8X/ZIlj9sgLoeyfRdDZEc9rT2KUeUJVHDsbvOFf4/7F1ovWY hJbA6GK/LUZeHHTjnbZcH1uDYQeHly4UOLxeEvhGoz4JhS2C7JzN/uRnwbdOAUbJr8rUj/IY a7gk906rktsc/Ldrxrxh7O6WO0JCh2XO/p4pDfEwwB37g4xHprSab28ECYJ9JMbtA8Sy4M55 g3+GQ28FvSlGnx48OoGXU2BZdc1vZKSQmNOlikB+9/hDX8zdYWVfDaX1TLQ8Ib4+xTUmapza mV/bxIsaZRBw+jFjLQHhTbIMfPEU+4mxFDvTdbKPruKPqVf1ydgMnPZWngowdwARAQABwsBf BBgBCAAJBQJX4t3DAhsMAAoJEB2VvLyBaaaC6qkIAJs9sDPqrqW0bYoRfzY6XjDWQ59p9tJi v8aogxacQNCfAu+WkJ8PNVUtC1dlVcG5NnZ80gXzd1rc8ueIvXlvdanUt/jZd8jbb3gaDbK3 wh1yMCGBl/1fOJTyEGYv1CRojv97KK89KP5+r8x1P1iHcSrunlDNqGxTMydNCwBH23QcOM+m u4spKnJ/s0VRBkw3xoKBZfZza6fTQ4gTpAipjyk7ldOGBV+PvkKATdhK2yLwuWXhKbg/GRlD 1r5P0gxzSqfV4My+KJuc2EDcrqp1y0wOpE1m9iZqCcd0fup5f7HDsYlLWshr7NQl28f6+fQb sylq/j672BHXsdeqf/Ip9V4= In-Reply-To: <25943.49653.523313.53953@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.68 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.994]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl:s=plan-b-mailer]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:206006, ipnet:2001:678:618::/48, country:PL]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[stable@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl:+]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[stable@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SXT4M3xq3z3dbs X-Spamd-Bar: --- This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1LEAolnHsw39SK3qkkf3oM0i Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit W dniu 17.11.2023 o 20:41, Garrett Wollman pisze: > I would recommend changing root's shell to something that better suits > your needs: either change it back to csh, or install the appropriate > package and set it to bash or zsh, both of which read startup files > for all interactive shells, not just login shells. Over the years many people have gotten used to csh which is really tcsh in our case, and those who are fully aware, change the shell to csh immediately after installation. No survey was taken among users, but I bet that for interactive use tcsh from the base would beat sh from the base and many users share the same user experience. The change of root's shell from csh to sh was to attract a new generation of admins who were used to bash and similar shells. There is no turning back, no escape from this trend. We will probably also transit with $EDITOR from vi to ee in the future. It would be best to choose the root's shell from the installer right before/after setting the root's password. Best regards -- Marek Zarychta --------------1LEAolnHsw39SK3qkkf3oM0i Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
W dniu 17.11.2023 o 20:41, Garrett Wollman pisze:
I would recommend changing root's shell to something that better suits
your needs: either change it back to csh, or install the appropriate
package and set it to bash or zsh, both of which read startup files
for all interactive shells, not just login shells.
Over the years many people have gotten used to csh which is really tcsh in our case, and those who are fully aware, change the shell to csh immediately after installation. No survey was taken among users, but I bet that for interactive use tcsh from the base would beat sh from the base and many users share the same user experience. The change of root's shell from csh to sh was to attract a new generation of admins who were used to bash and similar shells. There is no turning back, no escape from this trend. We will probably also transit with $EDITOR from vi to ee in the future.

It would be best to choose the root's shell from the installer right before/after setting the root's password.

Best regards

-- 

Marek Zarychta
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