From nobody Fri Mar 01 22:04:01 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TmhvL66Yjz5D7nc for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2024 22:04:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [IPv6:2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "holgerdanske.com", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TmhvK6wjRz47BP for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2024 22:04:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=holgerdanske.com header.s=nov-20210719-112354 header.b=YG2TmY1s; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=holgerdanske.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com designates 2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=holgerdanske.com; s=nov-20210719-112354; t=1709330646; bh=jqi/XOKyV8Cs8+oN7EXT9+wWBp1uVIM52gjWQFIzGGk=; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:User-Agent:Subject:To: References:Content-Language:From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=YG2TmY1sk+lcl1Os3HUZYwsRK+GAmY7LiuObErkZCU7osXlWcVYnTtPDzeK5oDIFr +sUlgZtpzdanuNg80geZm1UlCOrcY13kAFvpzFMY3bFsc5Wk3dWCDuHHXb/A4IsojM ktBOT7T0uHLxC3TKZ4/xctHQT9xc8mUlVjaHjpW+URfEtbO7+8O3xOJE4fZpVsEox4 SoRk1RFROv3FDPUaMgO3eLBqbgRd+d7Vpxs5WWbTGak9RIu2K3bFJFpi/1olyB9HMx 6jKOJ9COhFbAh0ABS+iNLVk9ZOU/Zrkbf5P4/bDVKcV8mxEuN40kCtIT4RyQrYBqYL nKFYu2BRaqaqNMCGD8WA5r6YaZIqD3mAOtf6o9AJSIgcZ2JDzMWfj5j2Ig0MhqpnlW tGubTIvu55p7NEL65MP5Y099Qtd+ja6v4tFSwUWHrovyQiQ3rKbyT6acxf69r+5pXn 8R3IaKFU/Lzr44+TSIWAAL2srpcWa5osAsxtAVhcPljj0lKnUiY5HfATTvbtSp3XBL 1j8RXJLZCNZhsUuEnJExi7jr6p4rNoixRhngW7MNImenyJ8CUExeXO2znWLMPOTB03 OCJROO7e3peuWEFRS2IGHbj8+POKRH3okuZUTmNnnY3Yck04DCHouzITuMG8foCCpo X4HVQMFXeYiyeNKNhexC0Fr4= Received: from 99.100.19.101 (99-100-19-101.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net [99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:TLSv1.3:Kx=any:Au=any:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2024 14:04:06 -0800 Message-ID: <5f24be71-67d5-4069-953f-2f86baa54d8d@holgerdanske.com> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2024 14:04:01 -0800 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: FreeBSD 13.2R and OpenZFS bug #15933 To: questions@freebsd.org References: <27dc6dbd-2ca0-4385-8281-e6bde086bd13@holgerdanske.com> <87eb268e-9429-414a-a3e6-d2e93eaa2119@holgerdanske.com> Content-Language: en-US From: David Christensen In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.89 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.995]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[holgerdanske.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:november.he.net]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[holgerdanske.com:s=nov-20210719-112354]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[holgerdanske.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TmhvK6wjRz47BP On 2/29/24 22:22, Daniel Tameling wrote: > On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 06:08:14PM -0800, David Christensen wrote: > Here is a write-up of the person that fixed the bug containing all the > gory details: > https://despairlabs.com/blog/posts/2023-12-25-openzfs-data-corruption-bug/ Thank you for replying. That is an interesting article. I like the diagrams -- they remind me of a data structures course. I am also reminded of an operating systems course -- specifically: shared resources, critical sections, and thread-safe programming techniques. Failing to solve the mutual exclusion problem correctly in the design is going to result in race conditions in the implementation. The article discusses concurrent operations, but only implies concurrent design. I suspect this is where the root cause of the OpenZFS bugs is to be found. >>>> Does this new OpenZFS bug [#15933] affect FreeBSD 13.2R? The article states: "Another reason cloning was implicated was that the bug had been seen on FreeBSD." So, I conclude that all FOSS OS's with FOSS ZFS were affected by the bugs, are still affected, and will remain affected until the root cause(s) are fixed. >> So, is my data safe on up-to-date FreeBSD 13.2R ZFS with native encryption >> disabled? >> > > It's safer than on FreeBSD 12 I agree that running an EOL OS becomes more unsafe every day. So, FreeBSD 13.2R for sure. I am having tough time choosing between OpenZFS (low probability, catastrophic severity bugs) vs. GEOM RAID (giving up ZFS next-generation features). > but nobody will give you any guarantees. Of course. David