From nobody Mon Jan 15 22:48:42 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TDS493cYdz57lDG for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 22:48:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulbeard@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com (mail-lf1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TDS48608kz46wq for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 22:48:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulbeard@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=DFWjxZ7A; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of paulbeard@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paulbeard@gmail.com Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-50e7abe4be4so12319097e87.2 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:48:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705358935; x=1705963735; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cPo2reDKbSiLXBFfT5C5JKMUfj5VwIl0gaLr4i4oJQY=; b=DFWjxZ7AJTY5DEJZpx2nUZcsPIbN8+ZjOIFs3f4TLKIMyY/rimisVQa4TLWv+us3Lu 3NOj4payhKEDngYfjpYOU5g4JPDnl1aQL/HMYBMBmrHnyX5ojk99dxQB8SbCf2cJ+xal iAGGf6lYTEWcKhpphl5dQz6hN0ak4+FeNJyS+EsxGPWFEM0y9i7Fyz5tNzK3mufb+yu6 D+3J9kaEGrdVzB+BjuptCWCVTkljXsoVWOgIz7hmDK4mfRX+JjYRx1ZM87egJNzQf9Ag 6YC6ulxY090Tug7ik6nMqm9VETJtxNiAruoDawpx1sr/X5UmmpB7GrizEmAAqngNape2 vkCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705358935; x=1705963735; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cPo2reDKbSiLXBFfT5C5JKMUfj5VwIl0gaLr4i4oJQY=; b=kXY7qaH0vhTktsVPz9sJh4+w6uzgaGs8KX+8jF1JnQ4HyhxwWZQ47xGHeVmVNuJg1m 72cZf4dj4T00SEcRu7PwfvXSBolEI5L61x+syZFyXJCepg/9hy5b32RCAKQTbv64ovJS GGTGzxRGe/ZQiRdLO4AycUK9oCMye8ps7vkwoDrWynYEJU+ow0R9mLBb5zN7Ws0ZGhd/ 9NY+OOsVeCTjWrwdGJEBs4p3DW3Zra9GMRNDCFyXuZs5fvzpPWUmsibMAg4JUOkTwfQo EhfzpoWd2dcyGYZoRg5GN4Go9Sr4wah481+PSsQj5IYBcUsSE66tc5u5mdJHfFon1zq/ OJSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywe64lYH6NL5Eb0Fon1BAx2FkRCT6Kh+a+pH6x1fodn9ddJUy5i EO0CxEl390EoJennulq2fNklctqB0rja6EZjDo3h6yKm X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFd5mLsCUWFJKaL2z/xtuvdk6Mt8T4luGyH6cKRNPExPz7uqH4GHa1MB18m8UOmeZuHgdxrZRLdKTXgUdqCWHo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:ad4:b0:50e:d3dc:2653 with SMTP id n20-20020a0565120ad400b0050ed3dc2653mr3778136lfu.5.1705358934465; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:48:54 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: paul beard Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:48:42 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How to upgrade an EOL FreeBSD release or how to make it working again To: Mario Marietto , FreeBSD Questions List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000080e017060f03d1e3" X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::129:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TDS48608kz46wq --00000000000080e017060f03d1e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NetBSD runs on almost everything up to a Dyson vacuum=E2=80=A6take a look, = there is an ARM flavor supported there. It will feel familiar, I expect. But to an earlier poster's point, that is pretty old hardware. I bow to no one in my enthusiasm for keeping obsolete hardware running, but a chromebook might be too little reward for the effort needed. On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto wrote: > Hello Paul, > > Do you know for sure if I can install NetBSD on my Google / Samsung / Arm > / Chromebook ? > > On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:38=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto > wrote: > >> What is NetBSD for ? >> >> On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 9:53=E2=80=AFPM paul beard = wrote: >> >>> This is usually where someone asks if OP has heard of NetBSD. >>> >>> https://www.netbsd.org >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:16=E2=80=AFAM David Chisnall >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 15 Jan 2024, at 16:46, Mario Marietto >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > The ARM Chromebook is based on armv7,it is still recent. >>>> >>>> For reference, the ARMv7 architecture was introduced in 2005. The las= t >>>> cores that implemented the architecture were released in 2014. This i= s not >>>> a =E2=80=98recent=E2=80=99 architecture, it=E2=80=99s one that=E2=80= =99s 19 years old and has been largely >>>> dead for several years. >>>> >>>> > But let's change perspective for a moment,don't think about the ARM >>>> Chromebook. My question is : how to upgrade FreeBSD when it goes EOL. >>>> >>>> Generally, run `freebsd-update`. This is a very different question >>>> from =E2=80=98how do I do a new install of an old an unsupported versi= on?' >>>> >>>> > I ask this because there is a huge difference here between FreeBSD >>>> and Linux. Today if you need to use , for example Ubuntu 14.0, you can= use >>>> it as is. Yes,there will be a lot of bugs,but it will work without >>>> crashes. But if you want to use an old FreeBSD system,nothing will wo= rk >>>> for you. So,do you know some methods to install even packages or ports= ? >>>> You know,there are cases when you need to do some experiments so that = you >>>> can keep your machine off the internet,so you aren't scared that someo= ne >>>> can compromise it. Totally prohibiting the users to use an old >>>> system,removing ports and packages is not a choice that I approve of. = And >>>> I'm not the only one that thinks like this. >>>> >>>> If you want to use an old and unsupported version of FreeBSD, no one i= s >>>> stopping you, but: >>>> >>>> - You will need to build the releases. The source code is still in >>>> git, you can. The scripts for building the release images are right t= here >>>> in the repo. Just grab the relevant release or releng branch and go. >>>> >>>> - You will need to build packages. Newer versions of the ports tree >>>> will not be tested with the older release, so you may need to use an o= lder >>>> checkout of the ports tree. Poudriere will build a package repo for y= ou. >>>> >>>> In both cases, if you=E2=80=99re using older versions you almost certa= inly >>>> *will* have security vulnerabilities. The project strongly advises yo= u not >>>> to do this and not to blame us when you install known-insecure softwar= e and >>>> end up compromised. >>>> >>>> The project does not have enough active contributors to keep >>>> maintaining things indefinitely. This is why release have a five-year >>>> supported lifetime. If you want to pick up an old branch and maintain= it, >>>> you=E2=80=99re welcome to. In the past, companies have picked up old = branches and >>>> maintained them for customers that had a dependency on them. If you w= ant >>>> to pay someone to maintain an old branch (and have deep pockets) then = there >>>> are probably a few companies that will happily take your money. >>>> >>>> Maintaining binaries is a slightly different issue, but it=E2=80=99s n= ot >>>> totally unrelated. Keeping old packages around consumes disk space an= d >>>> costs the project money (remember, every package is mirrored across th= e >>>> CDN, so this isn=E2=80=99t just a single disk). Even if it were free, >>>> philosophically, I think making it easy for users to install known-ins= ecure >>>> software is a bad idea but if you want to keep a package repo with >>>> out-of-date packages online indefinitely then you can. You can run >>>> Poudriere and even cross-compile from a fairly beefy cloud machine qui= te >>>> easily. >>>> >>>> It=E2=80=99s been a while since I did a full package build, but I woul= d guess >>>> that you could do a single package build (all ports) for about $50 on = a >>>> cloud VM, more (2-3x) if it=E2=80=99s emulated. Storing the results f= or a small >>>> number of users will cost around $10-20/month. If you think this is a= n >>>> important thing to do, then you are absolutely welcome to spend your o= wn >>>> money on doing it. >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Paul Beard / www.paulbeard.org/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mario. >> > > > -- > Mario. > --=20 Paul Beard / www.paulbeard.org/ --00000000000080e017060f03d1e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
NetBSD runs on almost everything=C2=A0up to a Dyson vacuum= =E2=80=A6take a look, there is an ARM flavor supported there. It will feel = familiar, I expect. But to an earlier=C2=A0poster's point, that is pret= ty old hardware. I bow to no one in my enthusiasm=C2=A0for keeping obsolete= =C2=A0hardware running, but a chromebook might be too little reward for the= effort needed.=C2=A0

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto= <marietto2008@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
Hello Paul,
=

Do you know for sure if I can install NetBSD on my Goog= le / Samsung / Arm / Chromebook ?

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:38= =E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
What is NetBSD for ?

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 9:53= =E2=80=AFPM paul beard <paulbeard@gmail.com> wrote:
This is usually where someone asks if OP has heard of NetBSD.= =C2=A0


On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:16=E2=80= =AFAM David Chisnall <theraven@freebsd.org> wrote:
On 15= Jan 2024, at 16:46, Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The ARM Chromebook is based on armv7,it is still recent.

For reference, the ARMv7 architecture was introduced in 2005.=C2=A0 The las= t cores that implemented the architecture were released in 2014.=C2=A0 This= is not a =E2=80=98recent=E2=80=99 architecture, it=E2=80=99s one that=E2= =80=99s 19 years old and has been largely dead for several years.

> But let's change perspective for a moment,don't think about th= e ARM Chromebook. My question is : how to upgrade FreeBSD when it goes EOL.=

Generally, run `freebsd-update`.=C2=A0 This is a very different question fr= om =E2=80=98how do I do a new install of an old an unsupported version?'= ;

> I ask this because there is a huge difference here between FreeBSD and= Linux. Today if you need to use , for example Ubuntu 14.0, you can use it = as is. Yes,there will be a lot of bugs,but it will work without crashes.=C2= =A0 But if you want to use an old FreeBSD system,nothing will work for you.= So,do you know some methods to install even packages or ports ? You know,t= here are cases when you need to do some experiments so that you can keep yo= ur machine off the internet,so you aren't scared that someone can compr= omise it. Totally prohibiting the users to use an old system,removing ports= and packages is not a choice that I approve of. And I'm not the only o= ne that thinks like this.

If you want to use an old and unsupported version of FreeBSD, no one is sto= pping you, but:

=C2=A0- You will need to build the releases.=C2=A0 The source code is still= in git, you can.=C2=A0 The scripts for building the release images are rig= ht there in the repo.=C2=A0 Just grab the relevant release or releng branch= and go.

=C2=A0- You will need to build packages.=C2=A0 Newer versions of the ports = tree will not be tested with the older release, so you may need to use an o= lder checkout of the ports tree.=C2=A0 Poudriere will build a package repo = for you.=C2=A0

In both cases, if you=E2=80=99re using older versions you almost certainly = *will* have security vulnerabilities.=C2=A0 The project strongly advises yo= u not to do this and not to blame us when you install known-insecure softwa= re and end up compromised.

The project does not have enough active contributors to keep maintaining th= ings indefinitely.=C2=A0 This is why release have a five-year supported lif= etime.=C2=A0 If you want to pick up an old branch and maintain it, you=E2= =80=99re welcome to.=C2=A0 In the past, companies have picked up old branch= es and maintained them for customers that had a dependency on them.=C2=A0 I= f you want to pay someone to maintain an old branch (and have deep pockets)= then there are probably a few companies that will happily take your money.=

Maintaining binaries is a slightly different issue, but it=E2=80=99s not to= tally unrelated.=C2=A0 Keeping old packages around consumes disk space and = costs the project money (remember, every package is mirrored across the CDN= , so this isn=E2=80=99t just a single disk).=C2=A0 Even if it were free, ph= ilosophically, I think making it easy for users to install known-insecure s= oftware is a bad idea but if you want to keep a package repo with out-of-da= te packages online indefinitely then you can.=C2=A0 You can run Poudriere a= nd even cross-compile from a fairly beefy cloud machine quite easily.

It=E2=80=99s been a while since I did a full package build, but I would gue= ss that you could do a single package build (all ports) for about $50 on a = cloud VM, more (2-3x) if it=E2=80=99s emulated.=C2=A0 Storing the results f= or a small number of users will cost around $10-20/month.=C2=A0 If you thin= k this is an important thing to do, then you are absolutely welcome to spen= d your own money on doing it.

David




--
Pa= ul Beard / www.paul= beard.org/


--
Mario.


--
Mario.


--
Pa= ul Beard / www.paul= beard.org/
--00000000000080e017060f03d1e3--