From nobody Sat Nov 25 14:48:34 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Scvqw3Dvqz52pF6 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2023 14:49:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert@rrbrussell.com) Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Scvqv2Yvxz3bvh for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2023 14:48:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert@rrbrussell.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rrbrussell.com header.s=fm1 header.b=BuyeuCzr; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b="1 g3zjRB"; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of robert@rrbrussell.com designates 64.147.123.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=robert@rrbrussell.com; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=rrbrussell.com Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75FFE32009F7 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:48:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap52 ([10.202.2.102]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:48:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rrbrussell.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t= 1700923736; x=1701010136; bh=w1QKBZXeJWSpoIQHgvBzS628TtACS7Hc/8S mpvVJLkc=; b=BuyeuCzr+u5/9zHf/Mk9ucqyXAlLNm195gZylihIMWvqQPnnDKa yCFCG0eMcmPmwQE5udgOh7sgfDGh51R+rNi5lCBfKtgkG45isOY3vEs3LtBqK1FP hOCnbymlz90PHRlnnJEHqR4FKym5x5g9Jm+cuV+D3ZF8kNU0Hg8Pv15M5Qb2oR79 MAml7Es9SFaTIb4Y/F+bY/3GMIDkRy0gLFZNiBf8tPjF1T0h77XgnWfhxV4v9zGp YZfhSIIM1DolP+C3/Uytea3nX0QFrPTDto8MYnG28mUrNRQY6XQYdpK1lCjGWNes Fn/vajFyL5z5EgIsNc2ARaYenMhFfQL8agA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1700923736; x= 1701010136; bh=w1QKBZXeJWSpoIQHgvBzS628TtACS7Hc/8SmpvVJLkc=; b=1 g3zjRBV5Xot9TWb0sEeUIKiOyyVLRjkFmHH2eFMac3LqmPEDzzhx3E5YaotvPvd4 FjKlwTrzlqCAKGsyrsSmMOnQMHIOrDCZ/4/YkTqNQdKh5YJH1f+lp+9m/4nFIbDQ 8KTNoth4oOb6gJkSYYR8sFs2tvZUCnIQ2CbvDNJWPvHJOrCNq+MvC2fHm21eVQkw Qh1wxg6591kGDUHGQV1ETswTju1JbEHlI4WIvbKAT6rFjQb0x5UzMv1P3S+Uhp3s puFPd4A0hx9CsUXNXvesvS9MaPxcLKlaqWuEwniY76TAmj3QoeqWnenmo+zo8ZT4 s0UB7RqGj+yOrCntt4Wdg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrudehjedgieekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtgfesth hqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomheprhhosggvrhhtsehrrhgsrhhushhsvghllhdrtghomhen ucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedtvdefieduffeiheeiieegieejleetveevhfevtdfhkeeike efffeigfffteetteenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhl fhhrohhmpehrohgsvghrthesrhhrsghruhhsshgvlhhlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ie421460a:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id A1A38C6008B; Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:48:56 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-1234-gac66594aae-fm-20231122.001-gac66594a List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2023 08:48:34 -0600 From: robert@rrbrussell.com To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZFS upgrade loader actions -- is it possible to check before reboot if your system will reboot cleanly? Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.49 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rrbrussell.com,quarantine]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_EXCELLENT(-0.40)[64.147.123.21:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rrbrussell.com:s=fm1,messagingengine.com:s=fm1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:64.147.123.21]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.147.123.21:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[robert]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rrbrussell.com:+,messagingengine.com:+]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29838, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Scvqv2Yvxz3bvh X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Fri, Nov 24, 2023, at 18:40, Dan Mahoney (Ports) wrote: > I was reading a couple recent threads (one about upgrading from 13.2 t= o 14) and another more virtiolic > thread about how terrible, awful, no-good our documentation is. I don= =E2=80=99t agree with this. =20 >=20 > I shied away from Linux for years because of nonfunctional man pages, = or man pages that someone > bothered to write, but then to only point to a postscript file on disk= , or to point at an =E2=80=9Cinfo=E2=80=9D file. > I mused regularly that it=E2=80=99s sad that =E2=80=9CThe Linux Docume= ntation Project=E2=80=9D website is in fact a whole > different website from =E2=80=9CThe Linux Project=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6or = any hundred of Linux Projects. =20 >=20 > Anyway, both threads talked about zpool upgrades and needing to update= your bootloader. I was recently > bitten by this, requiring my datacenter to put a physical disc in a dr= ive for me to recover from. (And > I even had to ship them a USB cdrom drive =E2=80=94 don=E2=80=99t get = me started on supermicro=E2=80=99s virtual media > implementation. it=E2=80=99s bad). >=20 > I understand that printing the raw commands to upgrade your boot loade= r (and/or your pmbr) as part of > the output of a successful =E2=80=9Czpool upgrade=E2=80=9D is probably= a bad idea, as the commands are not > one-size-fits-all, but having a special manpage for this process, spec= ifically (and having zpool > upgrade point at that page) might be useful.=20 >=20 > If the handbook doesn=E2=80=99t say something about this process, then= it should as well. >=20 > But also, it would be really nice to be able to poll the version of th= e various components that are > actually installed on the system (the boot loader, and even the pmbr i= f you have one) and see if > they=E2=80=99re current and can support the current version of your bo= ot pool. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t know if this is possible. Gpart bootcode, for example= , only has a command to *install* the > bootcode, not read it back. Since the loader and the mbr are tiny, hi= ghly optimized pieces of code, I > don=E2=80=99t know if there are any strings that can be examined to se= e if they match the running system. But > if the tools don=E2=80=99t exist, they should =E2=80=94 even absent an= y version strings, if nothing else, gpart > bootcode should be able to non-intrusively compare a file with the alr= eady existing one. >=20 > Does anyone know for sure? >=20 > -Dan There are at least 4 different types of documentation. * Developer API documentation * User interface documentation * How to/Example documentation * FAQs From my point of view Linux is better bottom up and FreeBSD is better to= p down. Though that is an issue for your request because the current boo= t loader documentation definitely has a more developer bent to it.