From nobody Wed Nov 22 05:09:58 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SZq7Q5NTqz51pdC for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2023 05:10:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pprocacci@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com (mail-ej1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SZq7Q2F9Lz4Hq5 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2023 05:10:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pprocacci@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a02d91ab199so153278566b.0 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:10:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700629808; x=1701234608; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=g5khg4sFIypwUkYdUXZtijtLu+fiCjrNYiZx7GX/JOg=; b=h0u4LSDXfBEnIraBOQt7Gzi69d7c384t3KSC9Dt8C3DEQEL04yzbmuhCrC3P4A+GHL uZbHRU2dpTs3zaQycELJH352vze1xQttpFpzJ0mOP2tcPGhvwiCpgFT2XoeNMw88LYDU Fe+/z7NMWbKmlujcIz9UxY1gA3or2cryd9tZU0xghAWwGiggqOggbQxM+NV5acEqCrvU JY5xSD5reWTs/YOBt4uMg58mSpqayvTmXJVs0BnJ+0j+ybgz6dzazlWh9NJGZ/LPXyMl P2zbvbLNpIzYnsJbhUMvfDrJvBpicuYdnMSISOx+uwh+iYm45NelN4DTO23TS/aY8Wsj iSuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700629808; x=1701234608; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=g5khg4sFIypwUkYdUXZtijtLu+fiCjrNYiZx7GX/JOg=; b=RSTPUu8N7tkWsFTZpltpZtpx5mMmUoze0giPQKpHmi3oNIY0NpwMrhfuw6HllW5cjO MDZUnw0E7Z4+oiRDmBFrA2qfN/fs38C/1aRdK08QIRu8luC09Jt96SRs++bOkSIrX4F3 Ggu+wsYXZiBHFOo0/qr8wwsYzsmqZr9m70lOUQO9/dJj1uBwWy8tjTktddlhdgNBh3D7 ZGbkvfKBKyZ0WT0BfC24PEOvueSyVtblfhGbQxVIn9xxu2Cd1rqSDSSPo8XIde0xXr7P 1W8yW8XVdqrPqGbV59JkqZKKuinjMDgretDmy4pe6wlhoISp0Uh67AIOTU9y6QPNT7H0 x/0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwBs56PoZQstBaZ6SahrtXXd2YOw1gx6ba+wjzT9c6swV/zzHks WKBC9drc6ICGWlIwViHHXBRpglWnurFn4kxMiA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEZfi3a5UCxzzlBtYzPd7Of3k6Xa7q7oDaDrKp/ejtJ/YI+ug9BlhB/9QHoqh0xjAKr8allBq5YRwKALrFjYIo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:5358:b0:a00:2947:409d with SMTP id j24-20020a170906535800b00a002947409dmr626382ejo.12.1700629808364; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:10:08 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20231121122634.4efa1f2a@freebsd> In-Reply-To: <20231121122634.4efa1f2a@freebsd> From: Paul Procacci Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2023 00:09:58 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I am sick and tired of the poor quality of documentation on FreeBSD To: Joe B Cc: iio7@tutanota.com, Freebsd Questions Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009f42af060ab6bb20" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SZq7Q2F9Lz4Hq5 --0000000000009f42af060ab6bb20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 10:27=E2=80=AFPM Joe B wrote: > On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 20:51:01 +0100 (CET) > iio7@tutanota.com wrote: > > > Take a look at how it's done on OpenBSD! Take a look at have it's > > done on Arch Linux! > > > > When there is something that is going to break something during an > > upgrade, you get timely information and a step by step instruction in > > what to do - BEFORE you do it! > > > > Something like this doesn't help! > > Pool 'zroot' has the bootfs property set, you might need to update > > the boot code. See gptzfsboot(8) and loader.efi(8) for details. > > > > I might need to update the boot code!? WTF does that even mean? > > > > I never touched any boot code during installation so I don't even > > know what that is! And reading those man pages did NOT help me in any > > way. > > > > So now I got a box that's borked with this beautiful message after > > updating the zroot pool: > > > > ZFS: unsupported feature: com.delphix:head_errlog > > ZFS: pool zroot is not supported > > Can't find /boot/zfsloader > > Can't find /boot/loader > > Can't find /boot/kernel/kernel > > > > > > > > I know exactly what you are going through i updated to 14.0-RELEASE > from 13.2-RELEASE and i was stuck. I didn't know what to do. There are > some outlets that can help though until the documentation gets better > like the arch wiki and other places. > > I Been on FreeBSD a week > > 1. https://forums.freebsd.org/ > 2. https://libera.chat/ then join #freebsd > 3. https://discord.com/ & https://wiki.freebsd.org/Discord join the > #helpdesk channel > 4. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/freebsd > 5. This mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/subscription/freebsd-questions > > When you ask for help don't complain just ask and layout what you've > done and what you are looking for and you will get a response. > > Try it. > > Joe B > > Bravo. No seriously bravo. There's the right way and then there's the wrong way. This approach from Joe is the correct approach. He's upfront and appears genuine. Essentially: "I'm a noob and need help". Perfect, let us have at it. Then there's the "I've been doing this for 20 year types (doubful in this case) and I fucked up, yet instead of asking for help I'm just going to complain" type. And with that I say: If you actually have been using FreeBSD for 20 years and you want to complain ... fix it yourself. You know what us "old timers" do when we run into trouble? The first thing is we don't complain about the thing we've been using for 27 years (in my case). The second "real" thing we do is go and check the bug reports for our issue. 99% of the time I found what I was looking for. The third thing, if the second thing wasn't good enough, this list with enough information in hope that someone would help you. -- In most cases they do. If not this list than the other resources shared by Joe. .. and with that, I welcome Joe. You've probably already contributed more in your week here than iio7 has in his past 20 years. ;) ~Paul --=20 __________________ :(){ :|:& };: --0000000000009f42af060ab6bb20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Nov 21, 2= 023 at 10:27=E2=80=AFPM Joe B <jc= b2023az@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 20:51:01 +0100 (CET)
iio7@tutanota.com wrote:

> Take a look at how it's done on OpenBSD! Take a look at have it= 9;s
> done on Arch Linux!
>
> When there is something that is going to break something during an
> upgrade, you get timely information and a step by step instruction in<= br> > what to do - BEFORE you do it!
>
> Something like this doesn't help!
> =C2=A0 Pool 'zroot' has the bootfs property set, you might nee= d to update
> the boot code. See gptzfsboot(8) and loader.efi(8) for details.
>
> I might need to update the boot code!? WTF does that even mean?
>
>=C2=A0 I never touched any boot code during installation so I don't= even
> know what that is! And reading those man pages did NOT help me in any<= br> > way.
>
> So now I got a box that's borked with this beautiful message after=
> updating the zroot pool:
>
> ZFS: unsupported feature: com.delphix:head_errlog
> ZFS: pool zroot is not supported
> Can't find /boot/zfsloader
> Can't find /boot/loader
> Can't find /boot/kernel/kernel
>
>
>

I know exactly what you are going through i updated to 14.0-RELEASE
from 13.2-RELEASE and i was stuck. I didn't know what to do. There are<= br> some outlets that can help though until the documentation gets better
like the arch wiki and other places.

I Been on FreeBSD a week

1. https://forums.freebsd.org/
2. ht= tps://libera.chat/ then join #freebsd
3. ht= tps://discord.com/ & https://wiki.freebsd.org/Discord jo= in the
#helpdesk channel
4. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/= tagged/freebsd
5. This mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/subscription/freeb= sd-questions

When you ask for help don't complain just ask and layout what you'v= e
done and what you are looking for and you will get a response.

Try it.

Joe B


Bravo.=C2=A0 No seriously bravo.= =C2=A0 There's the right way and then there's the wrong way.
This approach from Joe is the correct approach.=C2=A0 He's upfront a= nd appears genuine.
Essentially:=C2=A0 "I'm a noob and ne= ed help".=C2=A0 Perfect, let us have at it.


Then= there's the "I've been doing this for 20 year types (doubful = in this case) and I fucked up, yet instead of asking for help I'm just = going to complain" type.
And with that I say: If you act= ually have been using FreeBSD for 20 years and you want to complain ... fix= it yourself.

You know what us "old timers" do when we run= into trouble?=C2=A0 The first thing is we don't complain about the thi= ng we've been using for 27 years (in my case).
The second= "real" thing we do is go and check the bug reports for our issue= .=C2=A0 99% of the time I found what I was looking for.
The t= hird thing, if the second thing wasn't good enough, this list with enou= gh information in hope that someone would help you. -- In most cases they d= o.=C2=A0 If not this list than the other resources shared by Joe.
=

.. and with that, I welcome Joe.=C2=A0 You've proba= bly already contributed more in your week here than iio7 has in his past 20= years.=C2=A0 ;)

~Paul

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