From nobody Fri Mar 24 19:20:48 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4PjsWp1lhdz410Sp for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2023 19:21:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4PjsWn6rWJz4ksG for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2023 19:21:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id g18so2798994ljl.3 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2023 12:21:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1679685684; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bos1Eeqs3dtW20qgeNFStBbgo2yygEE2BlThoeIQJ0w=; b=h5KTSJ4WIuozWTpwTrgkWACZcfyE6TU76pYbTdiAIcFYWBgprxHGdWz2K28oyw/tt9 QqlYT1jsYMfO6r3zuumQINNfNkHr/W2FER+9sudP6KjGRXikwB0OWH+nvtbamfKhQGFz 81HsG/5wkU0uijZ/agJARibhTtxb+rXjixmgnvX1iClsEqbayo5qOlL37H/fEMdxSVW9 juL8THCVAozmRllSp+nTU52hOFl5hj00dqwMdd63IAwXwkZVQlOy9ZgeEp5PZBUaZrLG zq9Amtu3CMbnC3Prn+rcdfyAfP/CZvdnhgC9rkmfmZUCNWgPbzMNcUVVVYKe4i6xypaT C/aA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1679685684; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=bos1Eeqs3dtW20qgeNFStBbgo2yygEE2BlThoeIQJ0w=; b=7P4RoZwSZnx1GlPpp1V00iK+9EmcvbisfkJHxe/01iWK16ATAwaoCs164D6Vv4VkX2 1VVV2pUIZ2yya0dOCzLh43UXDvGUMIqTG7VQLkqbFv5fAnfN8IoLcR6vvpSlyDxfJU4S L6DZBjp0Up4GvlJk7DqBqw2OMA+PMerT5BYQcgVVWB5a2JxHbXz3C4k3bksFSoHYzIc3 U4bbtA7MEoKKdU6mwrwlV6cfo2QX3LlL0smN3FC9RKSSpKYJR4WELQUAG+ee6MHgebxi sr8JcGXjfR7lvhxnVWZkgMEotxDAIfGjVyaQwfjRF1+Sv4rR67CfDpDyu4WKty0FQ9qE iSyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9feLb/UJUwrTomAlcwmLDMSgpc4mUtGICD6Q2N9ac+6ANaxJLqS qQkIcx90dSvLuRi+RtO5J03CfpYdUNvKgfitgTn2WCYln1RgF2kf X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350bnIx311lcGreiLwPPtsAvFI3xi5xXXg8Kphy9cnGj8ucojfM7pff8a1Yp3b3C743KSK2H+swKuuCyNQI33VlE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:446:b0:299:580a:9473 with SMTP id g6-20020a05651c044600b00299580a9473mr1201557ljg.10.1679685684256; Fri, 24 Mar 2023 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3faa3481-abe3-47cd-f273-2658db42a5bc@gmail.com> <11239785ba0531583f29189b133ceafdcded8aad.camel@blues-softwares.net> <5f1028aadd42bcbd89c62e843fc59798c52a0f36.camel@blues-softwares.net> <9B5F5E1E-555D-4FA8-AFBE-EBBD3A8A7045@nimnet.asn.au> <6eaa6e1f-af45-41f8-a5d7-2f03eb4f456a@freebsd.org> <20230321192209.giqsnhqbl7ben6vk@beesty.loosely.org> <7e683c8f-0bb4-74c8-386e-5c4dff5f0804@nomadlogic.org> <34bfdc5d-47e7-f2dc-9560-d5c39f34bbca@safeport.com> In-Reply-To: <34bfdc5d-47e7-f2dc-9560-d5c39f34bbca@safeport.com> From: Odhiambo Washington Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2023 22:20:48 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: List managers [Was: Link usability] To: doug@safeport.com Cc: Pete Wright , questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008b650e05f7aa4c4d" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4PjsWn6rWJz4ksG X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --0000000000008b650e05f7aa4c4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 5:10=E2=80=AFPM doug wrote: > On Tue, 21 Mar 2023, Pete Wright wrote: > > > > > > > On 3/21/23 12:22, possessor.assizer305@aceecat.org wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 07:49:11PM +1100, Ian Smith wrote: > >> > >>> Ah, right. Yet another consequence of the regressive move from > >>> mailman plus pipermail to mlmmj is loss of clickable links in the > >>> archived messages. Duh! > >> Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for the move? > >> > >> My opinion: > >> Mailman has its warts but it's ubiquitous and well suited for > >> a world where almost everything has to be done in the browser > >> for $REASONS. > >> > > my understanding is that mailman was tied to python2, and the next > version of > > mailman (v3 iirc) that supports python3 is incompatible with the > previous > > version. i think it also had a bunch of other shortcomings/issues. so > i > > suspect the lift to use mlmmj was easier than moving to mailman v3. > > > > i agree its an unfortunate situation, but its i think it would be > > irresponsible to rely on python2 for such critical infrastructure. > > > Boo on the mailman project. There is a conversion utility that takes care > of the syntax changes. The only maajor changes I hit were the MySQL, and = a > couple of DNS modules. In something as complex as mailman I am sure there > was more but relative to just maintaining something that complex well > within there Python knowledge I would assume. I have run Mailman2 since 2005. I am currently running Mailman3. Mailman2 relied on Python2.7. Mailman3 relies on Python3. There is a migration script for Mailman2 to Mailman3. The installation for Mailman3 is better done in a Python Virtual Environment. Being a FressBSD SysAddmin since I encountered FreeBSD in 1997, I can authoritatively say that it is very easy to migrate. And IF anyone needs assistance to migrate their Mailman2 lists to Mailman3, I am willing to hold their hands. Perhaps I should document the whole process. It is quite easy. The only challenge I have faced is the startup script for controlling Mailman3, but I have a rudimentary one that works. I am running Mailman3 on FreeBSD 13- RELEASE, if it matters. I tried Sympa, but waah. Never again. If anyone has questions, I am willing to respond to them. All of them. If you have been running Mailman2, the move to Mailman3 is the most painless!! --=20 Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF :-) --0000000000008b650e05f7aa4c4d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 5:10=E2=80=AF= PM doug <doug@safeport.com> = wrote:
On Tue, 2= 1 Mar 2023, Pete Wright wrote:

>
>
> On 3/21/23 12:22, possessor.assizer305@aceecat.org wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 07:49:11PM +1100, Ian Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, right.=C2=A0 Yet another consequence of the regressive mov= e from
>>> mailman plus pipermail to mlmmj is loss of clickable links in = the
>>> archived messages.=C2=A0 Duh!
>> Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for the move?
>>
>> My opinion:
>> Mailman has its warts but it's ubiquitous and well suited for<= br> >> a world where almost everything has to be done in the browser
>> for $REASONS.
>>
> my understanding is that mailman was tied to python2, and the next ver= sion of
> mailman (v3 iirc) that supports python3 is incompatible with the previ= ous
> version.=C2=A0 i think it also had a bunch of other shortcomings/issue= s.=C2=A0 so i
> suspect the lift to use mlmmj was easier than moving to mailman v3. >
> i agree its an unfortunate situation, but its i think it would be
> irresponsible to rely on python2 for such critical infrastructure.
>
Boo on the mailman project. There is a conversion utility that takes care <= br> of the syntax changes. The only maajor changes I hit were the MySQL, and a =
couple of DNS modules. In something as complex as mailman I am sure there <= br> was more but relative to just maintaining something that complex well
within there Python knowledge I would assume.

I have run Mailman2 since 2005. I am currently running Mailman3.
Ma= ilman2 relied on Python2.7. Mailman3 relies on Python3.
There is = a migration script for Mailman2 to Mailman3.
The installation for= Mailman3 is better done in a Python Virtual Environment.
Being a= FressBSD SysAddmin since I encountered FreeBSD in 1997, I can authoritativ= ely say that it is very easy to migrate.
And IF anyone needs assi= stance to migrate their Mailman2 lists to Mailman3, I am willing to hold th= eir hands.
Perhaps I should document the whole process. It is qui= te easy.
The only challenge I have faced is the startup script fo= r controlling Mailman3, but I have a rudimentary one that works.
= I am running Mailman3 on FreeBSD 13- RELEASE, if it matters.
I tr= ied Sympa, but waah. Never again.
If anyone has questions, I am w= illing to respond to them. All of them.
If you have been running = Mailman2, the move to Mailman3 is the most painless!!


--
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200= 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cr= uft.",=C2=A0egrep -v '^$|^.*#'=C2=A0=C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF=C2= =A0:-)
--0000000000008b650e05f7aa4c4d--