From nobody Mon Dec 18 21:47:34 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SvD2R4zVxz5489n for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2023 21:47:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsdlouisville@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x1136.google.com (mail-yw1-x1136.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1136]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SvD2R2Q9Pz3CqH for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2023 21:47:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsdlouisville@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yw1-x1136.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5e730eb1770so8310687b3.1 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2023 13:47:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1702936062; x=1703540862; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eyXmRxI2CDJuLLU0L6qyrJ2USDDU4Cv/K5t5uzzhkD8=; b=RkeaBzfZdxZxQWDISCdeYZm46A73H34e7Inu7PSyE6y5mrt21mbKmni+HUsG3XY4O/ Zkn8LAqdnZJCk21nElUHl64wSefV9laXCxQwOqtiET9Y+RbEUnd34xluYHG2HIG6gY4e fFEyB+3CO+ec8FTTgFiM5Hm40sD054/0R7GOxVYmv3eLqE2M7Sxacmbka2O94GaynxuN YOK8dg7N2SEzvgdJApE4Fors67HoX9SkIOGy6o9kI71gq92lLDprn9PW+im+YIcvCXbQ CvLYCL3c2ZiNGY1xhM8hGB1iywHYl/FWocJ01DlaSCS4AMQ4UsJdj2iDf2QYyFQ/zWg7 U5Fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1702936062; x=1703540862; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eyXmRxI2CDJuLLU0L6qyrJ2USDDU4Cv/K5t5uzzhkD8=; b=dro6kI0E0e1JbbCFN16qVCeUVfdbIg/AIF3GIe3ubchlzf2u0ch7JUkAAsEd/yitN/ g4s3PszGz1kZ/Z8Jvjv3t0WO6EkYAWQhR1tYG3TCkbk43vkZfCQyyUQDviWDoL3O3D74 +OK+Cg72nOaIOzwEYEzk406fw3bM5LVtEeak8rlj8Ch4b7WOM7S5JkgONKTHugMyoTa3 aPMVOBZHTSUbQvODyl4DHqf/uonUYeXRVmylk/qs2gL5Q4kOBTuGDnwU+PB3k7KxSL9i e0a3nsvi/bDefbu+nEv5j1j3l3aqIMo6EuEHuJ4EMlaPnkuC28JEhEYTugMhv84e6cqN ZGQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzTwLGgG1DihrQ5py6E/ivvdmd1BKSb5GBxd/MW8j2DZ0FT5icG nkAfR3P/0JsCiYuNJfhnuOg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGU7sLZe7Ga6Zhp4RtS50lw6Ud6Qc3Ay/du/Qn9yoZUbkrxQHqtqKDACRHOEHIRhWDHscnx0w== X-Received: by 2002:a81:7142:0:b0:5d7:1940:7d73 with SMTP id m63-20020a817142000000b005d719407d73mr12359795ywc.74.1702936061718; Mon, 18 Dec 2023 13:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2600:1015:a030:426b:a374:b5d:ce87:e31c? ([2600:1015:a030:426b:a374:b5d:ce87:e31c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w184-20020a8162c1000000b005dde8f48a15sm9199744ywb.4.2023.12.18.13.47.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Dec 2023 13:47:41 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Friedrich X-Google-Original-From: Steven Friedrich Message-ID: <18106a49-88b2-433c-9d3c-bb04ee518d7e@Gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:47:34 -0500 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: "The installed loader is a binary, not a filesystem, so even minor changes require recompiling." -George W. Lucas in Absolute fBSD To: Jop , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" References: Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SvD2R2Q9Pz3CqH On 12/18/23 3:17 PM, Jop wrote: Um, Michael W. Lucas , not George... > Hello everyone, > > I have just begun my journey into FreeBSD using George W. Lucas' > /Absolute FreeBSD /3rd edition/./ My question is about *chapter 4* > /Start Me Up! The Boot Process,/ page 51. > I was befuddled by a statement he made, likely due to my IT nescience. > To my confusion, Lucas states: > > > A BIOS has all sorts of limitations. The boot loader must reside in a very specific section of the disk. BIOS can’t boot from disks larger > than 2.2TB. The target boot loader must be smaller than 512KB—huge > by 1980 > >standards, yes, but paltry today. :::**​*The installed loader is a > binary, not a filesystem, so even minor changes require recompiling > *:::*.* > > > Though this aspect of his introduction to FreeBSD is not about FreeBSD > directly, it seems vital for me to understand this correctly so that I > can aptly understand FreeBSD as a sheer operating system and how an > operating system boots. I was confused about Lucas' description because > he is implying there are /some /conditions in which a bootloader can be > an actual /filesystem/. This appears very illogical to me, as to me he > seems to be saying the loader itself should be something like FAT32, > UFS, or ZFS. Though filesystems, if my understanding is correct, help us > /organise /our data, they do not themselves /contain /data but rather > offer an organised space /for /that data, like a library with empty > bookshelves that we are ourselves to fill. Hence, if that "library" does > not contain a bit of data (e.g. the bootloader) that tells the BIOS how > to boot the operating system, the operating system cannot boot. Hence, > it is logically implied that the bootloader cannot be called in itself a > filesystem—not just /sometimes /under some conditions, but /ever/. > As I trust Lucas' expertise, how have I misread him? What is he actually > trying to say? > > I have searched online, and read a Wiki on bootloaders > and filesystems > , only to have my asinine > interpretation confirmed. > > Now, one a second note, I am new to the FreeBSD community, I have not > before used mailing lists, and the FreeBSD forums were down. I > understand IT communities can be strict about what and how things are > communicated, and I hope i have done right by sending this email. I hope > that I have done sufficient research by searching online, consulting the > WiKi pages, the mailing list archives, and of course Lucas' book. I hope > that my question is on-topic enough and that my beginner-level will not > stagnate the flow of your erudite communications. Should I have not > utilised this mailing list properly, kindly accept my apologies and let > me know. > > Sincerely, > > /J./