From nobody Mon Apr 17 16:35:49 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q0Xk55XPCz44tGG for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 16:36:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from h1.out2.mxs.au (h1.out2.mxs.au [110.232.143.236]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q0Xk42P0Wz4LNq for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 16:36:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au (s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au [103.27.34.4]) by out2.mxs.au (Halon) with ESMTPS id ec367274-dd3d-11ed-9cc9-00163c1ebd60; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:35:54 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nimnet.asn.au; s=default; h=Message-ID:From:CC:To:Subject: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To: Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BWpc2EfI0XiCrD0+6Ni8ovYBjSB/oSMlLDv9XTugcf4=; b=Gzgu7lPek4giUVbhUZzWw2+Lms OjZfUDTRpbTI/ldp3R/qbqEvt1rAmq06We5kTZLbFDkA7WGuN9BNPMEa4B97Jn4zT2yDUZ4yBsraU 4ad42Tx2YvNguF55+zDLu2oxqueO/SubVqQaqBtoBcaiCtU+X0in5ClFXKDtI5nHhBvl2oXBw9mPz neF+5GU5wZAigI4Q0aq+5GPwbnn2CE7kjP9fbaAFgAOOuHwfteI76LDXfBVj8SimZfcXG6X7an4Rw CyCHqk3tqGsC+UW4UQXD+mB1pTbR9yAf+l0gW23+UsMTmzGuW5L0R76Hl+s/GJ2RLJdIKjLAq/kpp LqdnQbjw==; Received: from [1.144.130.126] (port=40790 helo=Galaxy-J5-Pro) by s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1poRpa-0010Ul-09; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:35:54 +1000 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:35:49 +1000 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <06be3a1e-9319-1a21-88b9-4f87328ee127@timpreston.net> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <20230412155252.5e38ea4728bd52dc798852fc@sohara.org> <1d0a7ed1-9330-49df-9b66-9ee4387de511@app.fastmail.com> <78F4160A-2D26-4A22-9139-A9132FC42688@ellael.org> <20230417133223.3ef5e26c.freebsd@edvax.de> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Docker To: Mario Marietto ,Polytropon CC: Michael Grimm ,questions@freebsd.org From: Ian Smith Message-ID: <989A99FE-5DA3-4346-B886-32F8E64BA6F0@nimnet.asn.au> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - nimnet.asn.au X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au: authenticated_id: smithi@nimnet.asn.au X-Authenticated-Sender: s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au: smithi@nimnet.asn.au X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q0Xk42P0Wz4LNq X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:45638, ipnet:110.232.140.0/22, country:AU] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 17 April 2023 10:07:17 pm AEST, Mario Marietto wrote: > Ohhh finally someone has been able to catch the reasons why docker > has been > and it is a great tool=2E If you mean Polytropon, my take is that you've missed that he's skillfully= using a tool called "damning with faint praise"=2E > I may agree that these reasons aren't heavily > based on the code's sophistication=2E Parsing failure; pass=2E > But hey,who says that this is enough to > decide if a tool is useful and capable of reaching the critical mass > of people ? Ah, "critical mass" theory=2E Meaningless unless seeking a nuclear explos= ion=2E > Docker can be used by non-skilled people,like me and many > others=2E Many FreeBSD users are clearly not looking to increase the number of non-s= killed users for the sake of a larger number to wave around=2E I suspect m= ost would prefer to raise the average IQ, but it's not a competition; we're= not selling anything, right? If you wish to see anything implemented in FreeBSD you have the choice of = doing it yourself, or paying somebody else to create, debug and maintain it= =2E Continually arguing that someone ELSE should implement YOUR vision is clea= rly going nowhere=2E Nor will claiming there is some mob of silent users w= hose views you are championing cut any ice=2E > Jails are good,technically well coded,but less known,they exude an > excessive technicality, unlike FreeBSD, which is more immediate to > use (and > this seems to be a contradiction)=2E WTF does 'exude excessive technicality' mean? That you haven't read the d= ocs? > For sure I don't want to import in the > FreeBSD ecosystem tools like there are in windows, where developers > prefer > to sacrifice too much technicality in exchange to an exaggerated ease > of > use=2E I don't want that tool to think for me=2E I use my PC to train m= y > mind > to solve problems every day,but if those problems are too > complicated,I > can't solve anything and I can't help no one to test how the > development of > a tool is going=2E Indigestible word salad=2E Burp=2E > I know that many will disagree,but each operating > system > has strengths and weaknesses because whoever creates it comes from a > certain cultural background and has fed them since its origins=2E You're talking about thousands of people over 40 years or so in BSD's case= =2E Try studying the history more deeply=2E > FreeBSD has lagged in the > adoption of several technologies that came into linux and this makes > it > intuitive to understand how to use it=2E And Linux has benefited enormously from BSD technologies from the start=2E= Sadly the viral GNU licence, especially v3, limits what the BSDs can use = from Linux=2E > If you don't want to adapt docker to > FreeBSD, at least the use of jails should be made more usable and > immediate > for users who don't have much experience=2E Once YOU become experienced in their use, YOU can help make them 'more usa= ble' for those with perhaps limited capacity to understand - but please sto= p suggesting OTHERS work on YOUR stuff=2E > On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM Polytropon = wrote: >=20 > > On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 20:28:55 +0200, Michael Grimm wrote: > > > Jails are simple to set up and to use, and jails can be > distributed > > > by any capable admin, granted=2E > > > > And _that_ is the point: Docker can be used by non-skilled people=2E > > One side of this is the use of automation tools that do things > > for you, included thinking=2E The other side is a shiny web > interface=2E > > The third side is a profit-oriented company that you can make a > > contract with and pay money to, in exchange for service, support, > > and maybe the illusion of stability=2E ;-) Amen=2E