From nobody Mon Apr 17 14:40:37 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q0V8p4ybYz44kbn for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 14:40:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4fe0004e6529e.acc3cd01d600a3cc179dbce230701a1d@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q0V8p2W10z4FqK for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 14:40:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4fe0004e6529e.acc3cd01d600a3cc179dbce230701a1d@email-od.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1681742442; x=1684334442; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info:subject:to:from:cc:reply-to; bh=p0+Korl23r99VCvXCMbMl4zfnDi+oc5l0ppQmJ+MjMs=; b=RoCMjTojp+tFP9zCYeOG8bc+Vpac31sqW6n2ss8vw89yXyaDGzcfoKZtN1n/h/qSt/2LCzeyvTsPtIybqlpbuFEyLsj8r55URMLqNE1dUKisC+m4rbGjPFQhgZWIRg8fwaa5Ozep8DhiStbRbBbh/wZALbMN5fMXL41Fxz20lIw= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xZDRmZTAwMDRlNjUyOWUucXVlc3Rpb25zPWZyZWVic2Qub3Jn Received: from r2.us-west-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r2.us-west-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.190.2]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 10:40:41 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (86-42-20-118-dynamic.b-ras1.bdt.dublin.eircom.net [86.42.20.118]) by r2.us-west-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 10:40:40 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.95 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1poQ21-000FKd-Ts; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 15:40:37 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 15:40:37 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Tim Daneliuk Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Docker Message-Id: <20230417154037.6aa71b1ec09a9daf6b5c74bc@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <8f65dddf-185f-8154-ad8e-47aefb5f8021@tundraware.com> References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <20230412155252.5e38ea4728bd52dc798852fc@sohara.org> <1d0a7ed1-9330-49df-9b66-9ee4387de511@app.fastmail.com> <78F4160A-2D26-4A22-9139-A9132FC42688@ellael.org> <20230417133223.3ef5e26c.freebsd@edvax.de> <54e45838-28df-d99d-f063-e2613589a98d@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20230417135251.08c45b7f8c82749b979efe58@sohara.org> <8f65dddf-185f-8154-ad8e-47aefb5f8021@tundraware.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.1) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q0V8p2W10z4FqK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 09:10:16 -0500 Tim Daneliuk wrote: > On 4/17/23 07:52, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > With Docker and Kubernetes it is straightforward to do this sort of > > thing with rather fewer and less skilled admins. > > I agree with the spirit of your point but not that last bit. We do want > to get to the point where we can "treat servers like cattle" but > docker and K8s don't really do that on their own. You have to do a ton > of engineering to make that environment deployable, scaleable, > self-annealing, observable, etc. I agree - but it is a ton less work than doing it without them. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith