From nobody Mon Apr 17 12:52:51 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q0RmX0h28z45rmr for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:53:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4fe0004e0149e.5e3913e4eac3f0922fc3c1355b2def4d@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q0RmV6N3Nz4N2m for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:52:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4fe0004e0149e.5e3913e4eac3f0922fc3c1355b2def4d@email-od.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=Js1e1gvu; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4fe0004e0149e.5e3913e4eac3f0922fc3c1355b2def4d@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4fe0004e0149e.5e3913e4eac3f0922fc3c1355b2def4d@email-od.com; dmarc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1681735979; x=1684327979; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info:subject:to:from:cc:reply-to; bh=xPDbTEDGAbam0tvIuTCb24u7crwKkc2TKI/714fNNHI=; b=Js1e1gvu0Gj0HcCiK94HMDkh+06/BIYlnmrYSDFsnihJ1bpgjoWpmxR1Y55tprY2AWmTTxmD/+1+mcquYMydUg+GhNZFq3ylnbNTQB+57/XUZe29nKQ6KKzZ+I8rJR+QmAhmWGrlMVC/pqX50VzUqOynzQJPh5B+ChwoqPffCik= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xZDRmZTAwMDRlMDE0OWUucXVlc3Rpb25zPWZyZWVic2Qub3Jn Received: from r3.h.in.socketlabs.com (r3.h.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.180.13]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 08:52:53 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (86-42-20-118-dynamic.b-ras1.bdt.dublin.eircom.net [86.42.20.118]) by r3.h.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 08:52:52 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.95 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1poOLj-0009Pm-B9 for questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 13:52:51 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 13:52:51 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Docker Message-Id: <20230417135251.08c45b7f8c82749b979efe58@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <54e45838-28df-d99d-f063-e2613589a98d@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <20230412155252.5e38ea4728bd52dc798852fc@sohara.org> <1d0a7ed1-9330-49df-9b66-9ee4387de511@app.fastmail.com> <78F4160A-2D26-4A22-9139-A9132FC42688@ellael.org> <20230417133223.3ef5e26c.freebsd@edvax.de> <54e45838-28df-d99d-f063-e2613589a98d@kicp.uchicago.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.1) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.70 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.997]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4fe0004e0149e.5e3913e4eac3f0922fc3c1355b2def4d@email-od.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4fe0004e0149e.5e3913e4eac3f0922fc3c1355b2def4d@email-od.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[email-od.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q0RmV6N3Nz4N2m X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 08:29:09 -0400 Valeri Galtsev wrote: > I agree both with you, Mario, and Polytropon. Docker can be used by > unskilled person. But with the same potential results as when unskilled > person builds car for oneself. The only reason why to the contrary to > car falling apart on unskilled person who built it oneself, I do not > much care about the results of unskilled person using docker. I tend to think of Docker and Kubernetes as the Lego of system engineering. Provided you're dealing with well defined, well behaved components the ability to string them together into large scale applications without worrying about the fine details is a great thing. Just like Lego you don't need to understand how the motor works, or what the processor module uses for a bus you just hook them together and depend on them being engineered well enough to cope. This is what underpins a great deal of the modern web/social media/cloud infrastructure so it can't be as anarchic a mess as some think it is - or perhaps it is - but it does work well enough to hold up huge five nines sites. I would hate to try and administer thousands of servers in a complex scalable layered client/server system using FreeBSD jails and native or ports tools. It might be possible but it would be a lot of work by many skilled admins even using things like Puppet or Ansible to help. With Docker and Kubernetes it is straightforward to do this sort of thing with rather fewer and less skilled admins. That being said I don't do that so I don't want those tools and if I did I know where to find them. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith