From nobody Mon Apr 17 12:07:17 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q0QmX2sRsz45p2L for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:07:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q0QmW3Nrwz4Ds9 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:07:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com with SMTP id k39so3669225ybj.8 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 05:07:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681733274; x=1684325274; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=PysMAmQYV8TiovMjipX2XY29eXzbSsWSAC5ex1m8aB8=; b=SPqIvzUgkDhoBHgAguJAtoDMK1WKJf7L3RHFCLFGXP6ieFVQIObCjaMwuf+yJkRdju zF+uCPqrYsIfMZdumW1+4pv8NS5qJegvq1NZU3SWkARGMWQrmHDgXlP3HY7DJYx1QL6+ udPQAKVOKN5S5umlFoW3KeghSeeBHmxpA1OipOjwWTRI9GFEHVrinkw6RYBqQXrDhnat p6oNENyE0K3ru/KOwNtmNN/r3hoYY4hBcxDdKTBNkz3c8lEGSgRXbniLG1PoeoykZPrt 3Fjtm6YDyvix7vCcFcOEt2qkSDq7xgDSX1Nl3JHiAVsBlyV6KOUIdaGx19DLzsNQQMaN rs+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681733274; x=1684325274; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=PysMAmQYV8TiovMjipX2XY29eXzbSsWSAC5ex1m8aB8=; b=dkomWar/gCCzaO7TcycKkJC4FyrjTckMZWczFw/ywuA+haN4Bx8Prik4EmK/ZW6I9i Fo/ECeHsLP5r9p9nAmTKcY0/I1rRm3JyvDbWR53hzVzjBJKMZnremg/io1cd4QlL4h1x VVjezHpF0m8pua2H0za9H+3PAteiFoDMbeUzZW/XXarBWOODm0KGrQTUoST1h2/AFlVe LQs/AADyxZbSLj+l+DEAA9q3I5VHeSD9mG4MsJb60BJb0Mzq+ejOOPc4QpR0v0YoLc/N ABDctHGM/DAio3nAO+VWPAHyPpF5Pqf9uSuBoiPVLSu1KnHtiwkkQRC78+DSEdEGuAzc xQZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eeXOT6LAHQmY5s61YGBPHExrbh9HhaEwhUrgbzJxOVzPb+d0M7 VwbJpsYWemwsdpZJtbR8Jmf7sC2irWdAr990Hng7GDRRXDi33w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350aBAyi8wJhMv1OqVuX3jpAW9scwbuLmza4tdXLjaK9JJg/SBd820WTtlEHKaB4K9bHpRh1IuSQo7h9nsgU+ygI= X-Received: by 2002:a25:dfcf:0:b0:b92:37f6:faff with SMTP id w198-20020a25dfcf000000b00b9237f6faffmr3051969ybg.10.1681733274103; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 05:07:54 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <078a1cf8-7ae2-c593-615b-f5f37fa2b3eb@timpreston.net> <06be3a1e-9319-1a21-88b9-4f87328ee127@timpreston.net> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <20230412155252.5e38ea4728bd52dc798852fc@sohara.org> <1d0a7ed1-9330-49df-9b66-9ee4387de511@app.fastmail.com> <78F4160A-2D26-4A22-9139-A9132FC42688@ellael.org> <20230417133223.3ef5e26c.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20230417133223.3ef5e26c.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Mario Marietto Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 14:07:17 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Docker To: Polytropon Cc: Michael Grimm , questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000068f5f105f9870a5f" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q0QmW3Nrwz4Ds9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --00000000000068f5f105f9870a5f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ohhh finally someone has been able to catch the reasons why docker has been and it is a great tool. I may agree that these reasons aren't heavily based on the code's sophistication. But hey,who says that this is enough to decide if a tool is useful and capable of reaching the critical mass of people ? Docker can be used by non-skilled people,like me and many others. Jails are good,technically well coded,but less known,they exude an excessive technicality, unlike FreeBSD, which is more immediate to use (and this seems to be a contradiction). For sure I don't want to import in the FreeBSD ecosystem tools like there are in windows, where developers prefer to sacrifice too much technicality in exchange to an exaggerated ease of use. I don't want that tool to think for me. I use my PC to train my mind to solve problems every day,but if those problems are too complicated,I can't solve anything and I can't help no one to test how the development of a tool is going. I know that many will disagree,but each operating system has strengths and weaknesses because whoever creates it comes from a certain cultural background and has fed them since its origins. Linux seems to be the middle ground between ease of use and a certain amount of complication in solving the problems it brings with it. Windows bores me because it has too low a complexity level. FreeBSD has lagged in the adoption of several technologies that came into linux and this makes it intuitive to understand how to use it. If you don't want to adapt docker to FreeBSD, at least the use of jails should be made more usable and immediate for users who don't have much experience. On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM Polytropon wrote= : > On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 20:28:55 +0200, Michael Grimm wrote: > > Jails are simple to set up and to use, and jails can be distributed > > by any capable admin, granted. > > And _that_ is the point: Docker can be used by non-skilled people. > One side of this is the use of automation tools that do things > for you, included thinking. The other side is a shiny web interface. > The third side is a profit-oriented company that you can make a > contract with and pay money to, in exchange for service, support, > and maybe the illusion of stability. ;-) > > > > -- > Polytropon > Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... > > --=20 Mario. --00000000000068f5f105f9870a5f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ohhh finally someone has been able to catch the reasons wh= y docker has been and it is a great tool. I may agree that these reasons ar= en't heavily based on the code= 's sophistication. But hey,who says that this is enough to decide if a tool is useful and capable = of reaching the critical mass of people ? Docker can be used by non-= skilled people,like me and many others. Jails are good,technically well cod= ed,but less known,they exude an ex= cessive technicality, unlike FreeBSD, which is more immediate to use (and t= his seems to be a contradiction). For sure I don't want to impor= t in the FreeBSD ecosystem tools l= ike there are in windows, where developers prefer to sacrifice too much tec= hnicality in exchange to an exaggerated ease of use. I don't wan= t that tool to think for me. I use my PC to train my mind to solve problems= every day,but if those problems are too complicated,I can't solve anyt= hing and I can't help no one to test how the development of a tool is g= oing. I know that many will disagree,but each operating system has strengths and weaknesses because whoever c= reates it comes from a certain cultural background and has fed them since i= ts origins. Linux seems to be the middle ground between ease of use and a c= ertain amount of complication in solving the problems it brings with it. Wi= ndows bores me because it has too low a complexity level. FreeBSD has lagge= d in the adoption of several technologies that came into linux and this mak= es it intuitive to understand how to use it. If you don't want to adapt= docker to FreeBSD, at least the use of jails should be made more usable an= d immediate for users who don't have much experience.

=
On Mon, Ap= r 17, 2023 at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 20:28:55 +0200, Michael Grimm wro= te:
> Jails are simple to set up and to use, and jails can be distributed > by any capable admin, granted.

And _that_ is the point: Docker can be used by non-skilled people.
One side of this is the use of automation tools that do things
for you, included thinking. The other side is a shiny web interface.
The third side is a profit-oriented company that you can make a
contract with and pay money to, in exchange for service, support,
and maybe the illusion of stability. ;-)



--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...



--
Mario.
--00000000000068f5f105f9870a5f--