From nobody Fri Apr 14 23:58:18 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Pytgx1gXjz4559W for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:58:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx1.riseup.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Pytgv55wXz3HR7 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:58:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=V1aPDNCT; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net Received: from fews02-sea.riseup.net (unknown [10.0.1.112]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Pytgs2SGHzDqD5 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:58:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1681516713; bh=2njAndCVVySdmfRBbSD01knBHyYpRPbZy/MsWwTDY1Q=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=V1aPDNCTFrzQiR8iA3xMlZZlHcOIf7WaOI1TDJHahVRVm5F3RbnO6wzK6l9d+uKWS tB1CoTRpG29ngqEMLIBDQlyL6M1oGQ/LmoZ0SO2t5qPOfkueffGQMZeJP3se7inJd8 3kItp3lKB8qjS5BmvNi/V7PlsD6o/vUW1pLDbNHc= X-Riseup-User-ID: 9F5ACE49F7211DD5739185BDB29BD73277402DCB14177B1371F9762FB7908F07 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews02-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Pytgr466hzFsQ3 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:58:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Subject: Re: Docker From: Ralf Mardorf To: questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 01:58:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <543289768.3317542.1681394425362@mail.yahoo.com> <887947753.4080046.1681511775374@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.20 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Pytgv55wXz3HR7 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Sat, 2023-04-15 at 01:21 +0200, Tomek CEDRO wrote: > On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:46=E2=80=AFAM Mario Marietto wrote: > > So,let me understand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBSD. Im= agine that the FreeBSD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,this is= true interoperability. >=20 > Mario, (Free)BSD is Unix derivative and thus standard compliant, look > at sockets, IPv4, IPv6, Jails, ZFS, etc. >=20 > It was Linux folks who invent things that are only compatible with > Linux and only until new fancy pancy Linux only revelation is > introduced then those solutions are not even Linux compatible anymore. > "Progress by Enforced Changes"^TM. It was Docker that did not take > other OS into consideration at design stage. It was SystemD that did > not take other OS into consideration at design stage, and now lots of > application follow that systemd core dependency making them hardly > portable to any other OS. What about kernel API changes with every > minor release that started around 2.4.11 (I was using Linux 2.0.36 / > ~1998 .. 2.4.12 / ~2007)? Look at DRM mess it introduced to graphics > driver world. How would you call that interoperability / portability / > long term maintenance? Linux by design is self-incompatible. Do you > really want us to to follow that "fashions" with a life span shorter > than a yogurt? >=20 > There are reasons for people avoiding Linux. Hahaha, since I know you from the times you were a Linux user (to be fair this was the VintageInit time ;) and while I'm still mainly a Linux user, but for good reasons lurking on what's happening with FreeBSD... ...yesno... it depends. IOW, no, no, no, you are mistaken in so many ways. However, since around a month I'm migrating from old Intel hardware to latest raptor lake hardware. I seriously doubt that it makes a big difference, if I would prefer=C2=A0FreeBSD over Linux or vice versa, assumi= ng my "main" domain pro audio would allow such a choice. Some Linux distros try, without any success that is worth mentioning, or at best it is a step into the wrong direction, do flirt with the hardware suppliers. In many cases the chances are a little bit better to get hardware support from vendors, when using Linux instead of FreeBSD. In my current situation it doesn't matter, regarding the desktop user issues I experience. Seriously related to your argumentation we all should migrate to ... I'm unable to speak it out ;). What actually is "standard compliant" for? POSIX? Without doubts for Linux there's no standard at all. It is not POSIX and the LSB failed completely. However, apart from server usage, what is any old fashioned standard still good for, if hardware vendors do everything they can do, to make desktop computer usage even for experts very hard, if they are unwilling to use Windows? IOW every OS has got it niche. Regards, Ralf