From nobody Thu Apr 13 17:46:33 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Py6TC2xCLz45TyZ for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 17:46:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic320-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic320-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.191.82]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Py6TB4SjJz3FWN for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 17:46:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1681407996; bh=zheNWsJvqHa/wNWWr1338VWCd6qwDWmQtT1HSQgVfXk=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=mEZ7TyTVd6nHm4zcLvdaEetGdbCmA5ITQW/+b8BXYPdhRnjGgadpDIfORPyKzpVWpYLOmCUCR1i9qWnlp5Agk5glxis7fFbqaRd7Lxf74zENd+PKvSRDAdKlFm/LEWyZdADXj5KacUCfRgLgLMSxG1IlGHeGBke+JwnFznFTu8L1Eutc2jXbSA6leXCf7kGXeXar8svBDYVQ9GKnlyRqSJO/dV4tBYQ6dKkj2ItoIqdmcN3TFQsypiKOZSqyIewI5LZb0fAwWqtlLmGC0aaHZaFSylcEt1ZAM0GuAklicqjxQ0n4MpHlDQCc/sE24OtDjGkUIVRLgkJDikTOuPuJTg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1681407996; bh=oxCmzvj0ty90FnIXWg8k52b7egs/YgmG/eZbAd0vzvu=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=q+LVrGBoahKA4LmJdll9sb0UyzT82se3NJ07+Uf265iC9v8b8ZZDLEOfRP/C08TYBF72ld3/KEyoMu8/d5Qpq7tX4AqFSrATyDZPsQ/AZ/FYCadmpx/lZJV6EbHkwrmkNOknhqyGziWFs6K6ri5DPmzja0u01/MN7OJtqwSeQuD1faH/JHr7qLp/LjkQeDOppngYCIBpOL0Z5p+TeshsR4rqM5OQiRhjq6J/gVx2opu/1UT23C/X1s/GQMYbiwJTIJ96I4qkM95DU4AhhGo0hCz4kKy8bU3ksY0JkXKEcs8uLNK8qXq1NQc5DziJYsbuq9l2WaAWxoD3A4p5B8zRbw== X-YMail-OSG: lIGvK0sVM1nx.oYSZpxWQw4uVwqoYlRcSrZ5KjLxMs0gKrwAbb.jG.tPU3u0CU4 V75manbqeH3vceKtfAcRCvWDyf9EvN4hirPpYpt9RrFb7EK3gMHkAFAbSQ9BZv3aVJaOvULvcTpY wSlGFpjR24smBDNWPY.8ruN5CFWispmlFfErrsM1rMJlGvOoNzzGFRijXbyxfmvfFbPfGL7.SU4c 8SBmgOokPSFCQkL2p2Nlrj.L5QVQBT5zjXiqu0vN7il5c2c82waMYSkauRgdLUXqwMqPOR6eaxT9 9iPeiDsFqeg0KeOjOM6Mukh_3xi4dFpoGLivvEOAR2dh.iYvQpXfwMEANUGaB6.RwcAaTQwBiJ.t scfKP4FYrfLtzDOgJFLRmCpnFbhu3WoU.hD_iyQ1C7DG_jUIFrkzHdHS_m_rJ1Lw8jBxrEkdFeoe QB0qfr7fOsNaiZ5JkVT8yRuOYNNFq8u9NmV8WHFbs_gUYxLQRKSuQBXfZVVVQJCHCIOr5toVMI5A hR3J0UYARDtaz.0PHufJBaBrDWR5gH9njzPFcvLvZsvHtu3D8SQwJF9beK8KWB_RzGNepsjlUqEz S0d0Mvjqsb7zMlO.9ILd9GMRfEybtpGW6WqGwkRjzNFQoWYNw0EO6xNCqhSppopcNJAnHnJz6IiH DEt01ILjaS2c0.vxyHZvvmAbnL46R0xE9rk37wp.OV5ItNm_QCDfrtgv8A2ud2w16QH2d5Y.WI89 X4HyrAVgMJM_AyXlyWXHRmC73zcdja6Xb9E3Ggmv4hr4T8XbLvjWsb0fEdSTkGhx17dc_nCUnGiZ _dk5QKqdYHpiFCz9cGbHe0Id6HT1_p4j_.HVmzyyInhRid735VDcUBnMRpU5Mm9LIMXfpPFiiYFW hb7vvFcWOF4Z2yayG0YCYhapMO4GP3NWu_v9DkE9_CaOKA8ioj5jC6p.P_Z5q1TIIU5bqkuv_Fwx x9o5yX8lgFpyGIpzZAm4m5_QJiNq7GxlcXI08y_fQ_iarANUjk3JfYUTXxONnpbzfgPM4L3lNPll Bio61ED.M6wawY_a5J3G.Qjfnr.VVgIoCC3rpoIfFRzQp0zfC1.y6CEUm8goAf1g.7EvG5D2ehxQ 1EbfTkJg5NaJhKZ3e14UKCO80Ly_qkul3vAsX79AN8Iz_biIx7YP9sN.fW6Uo8RXf05rQ1sIe3eX dQjhdYho4jlhcJ.FVvJXBFiNx.2pqos4lFRTHBvKPpCNztixL7bx_9YEbGZUrqo7iGHAUH.NymTB mtzedFfsPsqAAAlZsvu_IMMZzIKWPilGgh9RZX0fwEYBArKkG0tVRm8rTQSnKuDDzrgSGHW.wDZA w.K4YPP12D1dtwLmQxTpRh5R_A6cpd3xseWe8vlknaZsf2kB_oCTLbmR65Drmtp1lQbAEc.NoGgO 2wuP8XtaW3tMhoqqAviiSpHzEZvfPREfJ.klg1.VLl.3ZpCq1RYLuJXeet9qWvdQ8vVY021lOB1z uadt6swACeoUI89WDigIqPRAiu_tP.nVCNApexSKdh0FPE3niHEoGlPDTnumxN7if3Cnc.R1FetB 96IiEfrh.GrxUixmRhW8.bCCT3YkCBYotz3JiaWqa1ZberQoaoEeqGyTBSGWlTwWckyuG.FnGmeS T0b29OQizVgY6_Tctag8eZg5ROfIksIdBg9c31glfaOdurT.kUsU9jfLx8ElZwEt8joUtw3BqgY. rkp9AIGNy8wlcqF8mFkPoBC9quERsBbChgQKzs1BPWCAix.byGYMgVfniXadWjeXUZni42eVsen. IHPXvc8mzabwSF3zMOgQ8Jrw0FDFt78cM8SeXfEehY1ZAdvQjHcH_qqnCUguEGfCGU1oAQIFgFgn JURilvnn4o4wOU2dU7mf0l4mkZC5n66ffMhcD5cGDMfgcQf7LV6wLJW0sTr1.SlsGa.Qx.k1cB81 w.9V3IP0iIhzMfi8edUi_r7A.EBkgvde.kn_oJZBSAPsoQyVqFu3jtMrILvLLL0i6H0Rq2hXRZH0 q2T15TAIfwu7cAUEKSHnefG11dje5b999RMKl2dyDXmhO7dUlTyAAzI97KPHQpXjvt2BqcwhHI_w 2Ln7n2ZkrMypWfW7N.ZH7GZAPecC987Y0jyHc04CqqeX3N7a9CUvw6Z_tH5pF8a9Bk4Xg5XrHirB GzdI9DSGYpaDDO57YlzvDauAfYCRpXQAFUv2Tne97DUzDRer9Ge1.JUZEs2ZCOw1tDNyOflUMJlZ Yizjg0Qne8bwx2.CHMvFma3xteDggHz_zCr4B X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 626d3a63-5030-43b2-9fca-900807ef6574 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic320.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 17:46:36 +0000 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 17:46:33 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Steve O'Hara-Smith , Mario Marietto Cc: Miguel C , Alejandro Imass , Tim Preston , freebsd-questions Message-ID: <1713049884.3454502.1681407993048@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <543289768.3317542.1681394425362@mail.yahoo.com> <20230413165139.6a79f0a99d29accbcdc8769d@sohar a.org> Subject: Re: Docker List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3454501_903155551.1681407993047" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21365 YMailNorrin X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Py6TB4SjJz3FWN X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N ------=_Part_3454501_903155551.1681407993047 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And again, I must ask that this is dropped.=C2=A0 In my eyes, it is now tr= olling. As Steve posted, find a group of people that are interested in making it av= ailable with FreeBSD kernel constructs and create something that can easily= read/write and make use of the docker containers. FreeBSD has multiple containers technologies and the oldest one is jails th= at was created, literally, decades ago.=C2=A0 Just because 'Docker' is the = neat, new, kewl thing right now, it may or may not survive.=C2=A0 Jails and= hypervisors have and so have all the other constructs of FreeBSD.=C2=A0 Th= e security on them is incredible and the inheritance is well thought out. Mario, if you really want this, start a project, find out all the people yo= u need and ask if they will donate time.=C2=A0 You've been stating that no = one wants to learn 'something new like jails/iocage etc'.=C2=A0 Thats the p= roblem with the industry today.=C2=A0 People don't want to learn and unders= tand at the bit level.=C2=A0 You want Docker on FreeBSD, but you don't want= to learn about FreeBSD to learn how complicated it is.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I work on various versions of Linux daily.=C2=A0 Quite frankly, it's a hodg= e-podge of multiple projects that get thrown together and somehow works....= until massive holes in functionality and security are found.There are bigg= er problems for them to fix than a container system that grew out of a need= to simplify coding and environment creation for ease of use....aka not wan= ting to put the effort where it belongs... an incredibly solid foundation a= nd proper programming practice. The FreeBSD OPERATING SYSTEM is a kernel and userland.=C2=A0 It is constant= ly optimized, rewritten and goes through a rigorous design/upgrade/implemen= tation process and multiple QA and release clients before any version is re= leased.=C2=A0 It shows in the CVE findings.=C2=A0 Even x.0 releases are rob= ust and mostly bug free.=C2=A0 I don't see any versions of the Linux KERNEL= ever doing that and its a comparison between a COMPLETE OS versus just a K= ERNEL. So pardon me.... but I now see you as a troll.=C2=A0 Please talk to some of= the more detailed people on the mailing lists to start your project.=C2=A0= Learn about the kernel structures on Linux and FreeBSD and their equivalen= ts.=C2=A0 That's where you should start. Paul On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 09:40:47 AM PDT, Mario Marietto wrote: =20 =20 Have you ever asked yourself because until 2015 there was an interest to k= eep the docker updated between the ports ? Maybe because there was (and for= me there is) a good interest between the developers and users,even if ther= e aren't developers interested to fix it.=20 On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 5:51=E2=80=AFPM Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 17:43:15 +0200 Mario Marietto wrote: > For sure not everything,but something that is very requested and that it > has given a solid proof to be a valid and robust tool. I think Docker has > all these requisites. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 So go forth and make it happen. I posted elsewh= ere an overview of what needs doing (I probably missed a lot of things), it's a fairly big project and it will need its own team of developers composed of people who want it done. --=20 Steve O'Hara-Smith --=20 Mario. =20 ------=_Part_3454501_903155551.1681407993047 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=
And again, I must ask that t= his is dropped.  In my eyes, it is now trolling.

As = Steve posted, find a group of people that are interested in making it avail= able with FreeBSD kernel constructs and create something that can easily re= ad/write and make use of the docker containers.

FreeBSD h= as multiple containers technologies and the oldest one is jails that was cr= eated, literally, decades ago.  Just because 'Docker' is the neat, new= , kewl thing right now, it may or may not survive.  Jails and hypervis= ors have and so have all the other constructs of FreeBSD.  The securit= y on them is incredible and the inheritance is well thought out.

Mario, if you really want this, start a project, find out all the p= eople you need and ask if they will donate time.  You've been stating = that no one wants to learn 'something new like jails/iocage etc'.  Tha= ts the problem with the industry today.  People don't want to learn an= d understand at the bit level.  You want Docker on FreeBSD, but you do= n't want to learn about FreeBSD to learn how complicated it is.  =

I work on various versions of Linux daily.  Quite f= rankly, it's a hodge-podge of multiple projects that get thrown together an= d somehow works.... until massive holes in functionality and security are f= ound.
There are bigger problems= for them to fix than a container system that grew out of a need to simplif= y coding and environment creation for ease of use....aka not wanting to put= the effort where it belongs... an incredibly solid foundation and proper p= rogramming practice.

=
The FreeBSD OPERATING SYSTEM is a ke= rnel and userland.  It is constantly optimized, rewritten and goes thr= ough a rigorous design/upgrade/implementation process and multiple QA and r= elease clients before any version is released.  It shows in the CVE fi= ndings.  Even x.0 releases are robust and mostly bug free.  I don= 't see any versions of the Linux KERNEL ever doing that and its a compariso= n between a COMPLETE OS versus just a KERNEL.

So pardon m= e.... but I now see you as a troll.  Please talk to some of the more d= etailed people on the mailing lists to start your project.  Learn abou= t the kernel structures on Linux and FreeBSD and their equivalents.  T= hat's where you should start.
<= br>
Paul

=20
=20
On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 09:40:47 AM PDT, Mario M= arietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:


Have you ever asked yourself because until 2015 there was an interest t= o keep the docker updated between the ports ? Maybe because there was (and = for me there is) a good interest between the developers and users,even if t= here aren't developers interested to fix it.

On Thu, A= pr 13, 2023 at 5:51=E2=80=AFPM Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@soha= ra.org> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 17:43:15 += 0200
Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
> For sure not everything,but something that is very requested and that = it
> has given a solid proof to be a valid and robust tool. I think Docker = has
> all these requisites.

        So go forth and make it happen. I posted elsewh= ere an overview of
what needs doing (I probably missed a lot of things), it's a fairly big
project and it will need its own team of developers composed of people who<= br clear=3D"none"> want it done.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>


--
Mari= o.
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