From nobody Thu Apr 13 08:16:27 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4PxsqY1z6nz44VTr for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:16:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x631.google.com (mail-ej1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4PxsqX2YQHz4KGJ for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:16:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yabarana-com.20221208.gappssmtp.com header.s=20221208 header.b=iWq3xi2r; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aimass@yabarana.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::631 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aimass@yabarana.com; dmarc=none Received: by mail-ej1-x631.google.com with SMTP id os24so5699342ejb.12 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 01:16:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yabarana-com.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1681373798; x=1683965798; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XpzOAL0MBw7Bw59Ges1eR885SjUfMbsZm9Sx1Yjd0u4=; b=iWq3xi2rDlMu5Xb3hL4jJjxEXVi/qF92WB6LjRF+oE/veADMlmzcdT30nf3QiM5isL eavNaPn9xi1z984hjfYi846M5QGnDB1AG9lMuaNdOCtUcqfKsIEAY0YLA31ESKSxybW4 fyTI3frv8RFOr6Twx+vsqMlGGDRWEqizKefpumX2QmVLAx/sRLMIoLBxYLk/FWE+BCd5 lhdgMx5pNciRh6NglYN7Kotj7yQMKIrlx6frJINiYvjMrizcYOfYCkxtf+/8YOixefTD VcBRp1cjqO1YOi0ld8+gp+rL9CIgg+yNMHxV5xQnbiNLlfj+X7Ksi43tWhn87Bngh9Uo 97EQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681373798; x=1683965798; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=XpzOAL0MBw7Bw59Ges1eR885SjUfMbsZm9Sx1Yjd0u4=; b=cm2E0I9Rv3NpImu1JsUoaDk8v7bJSjaDjEu06W6PY50hcjmnEDX3bsCHJA5Zt0Brqd ugkLVDipYPiOB8Ix550oiXrFjHiKQWGsEffbAPI1WEkhtgzH9cL4TU9+5amyBjaIDPrB /24MXBTDiXvafTMk68NhHlXfxnRv4uo1G+okZCHkO1lUY/3c5Y6xpJMUukouEiXNMsgc UydIzVEYI8gwVxC0ZJy1bhqlGWayjNvimyhv+1nJKqfMDZMo9/Vsu67UJcalTlJtMTlI rSMpk92oKW2AxsL/uD8ZE84mIoqqvyTiZI93GoS7P97m3GuSdmNY2II/9BvqXp3XGW/t 9O6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eTYERj+gJ7vh0n7JI7dw6j/a4XPAAt5mL1+qTqSqVuqvzvURCL iKl/TxmFsILZuw4tdrK1ai1smxoiUjlAipeqt3k+xw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350akSfHR+kZPA2f2VQLgqe3LiQeGVT9Lk0FCxHpYyayMKBYJfOAWixGX5WcXC/qU3LkWFJNJViEamCNdpog48uE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:1de6:b0:94a:5cb3:8979 with SMTP id og38-20020a1709071de600b0094a5cb38979mr795981ejc.10.1681373798307; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 01:16:38 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <8E16D624-2655-4A10-844A-93E4F63E9859@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <078a1cf8-7ae2-c593-615b-f5f37fa2b3eb@timpreston.net> <06be3a1e-9319-1a21-88b9-4f87328ee127@timpreston.net> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Alejandro Imass Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 10:16:27 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Docker To: Mario Marietto Cc: Dave Cottlehuber , freebsd-questions , Tim Preston Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fbc95005f93357c8" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yabarana-com.20221208.gappssmtp.com:s=20221208]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::631:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yabarana-com.20221208.gappssmtp.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yabarana.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4PxsqX2YQHz4KGJ X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --000000000000fbc95005f93357c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 12:26=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto wrote: > For sure there are users / developers that are in the middle,like it > happens in the political area. I like this kind of person. I'm one of tho= se > people. My criticism is against those users and developers that show an > exaggerated "love" and fidelity towards a system, whether by ideology, > whether by habit, or by commercial reasons. I'm a frequent visitor to > various freebsd forums and I often read opinions radicalized on linux > technologies that should not enter the freebsd world, simply because in > Freebsd there are already excellent tools that do their job well. Yes,the= y > work well,but why not add more and different tools that which would allow > the creation of bridges between different operating systems ? > > > The thing is that FreeBSD is actually better. By 2006 I was doing with EzJail what many people consider today cutting edge. We ventured out on "boutique web hosting" for a while and I single-handedly administered about 12 bare metal FBSD servers with anywhere between a dozen to 20+ jails each. Today there's Bastille and much better tooling and I don't think that FBSD necessarily needs to " fit in" with the container and AWS crowd. FreeBSD invented containers as jails long before they were reinvented by Linux and Docker. I think the best path is to continue to do what it is good at, which is producing the most stable and high performance OS on the planet. I'm not saying that change and evolution are not good, I'm just saying that I don't see FBSD as a " me too" player. If you look at any company or organization who abandons their core values to pursue the latest FAD or whatever usually just dissolves into oblivion. There are tons of example but RadioShack comes to mind, when in the 1990s they decided to almost do everything contrary to the core values... I had worked there as a teen in the 80s and I could not believe what I saw when I visited the States in 90s. Getting Kubernetes to work over bare metal FBSD --AND-- adding a compatibility layer to pull in existing Docker images could make it very attractive for companies and organizations wanting to move away from AWS or Azure back into their own stacks.. what VMWare failed to do. Initially it could target just development teams and startups wanting to save on AWS but eventually I think a lot of companies would want to move away from Amazon or Azure but they just don't have a viable alternative. anyway just my $0.02 Best, --=20 Alex --000000000000fbc95005f93357c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 12:26=E2=80= =AFPM Mario Marietto <marietto= 2008@gmail.com> wrote:
Fo= r sure there are users / developers that are in the middle,like it happens = in the political area. I like this kind of person. I'm one of those peo= ple. My criticism is against those users and developers that show an exaggerated "love" and fidelity towards a system, whe= ther by ideology, whether by habit, or by commercial reasons. I'm a frequent visitor to various freebsd forums and I ofte= n read opinions radicalized on linux technologies = that should not enter the freebsd world, simply because in Freebsd there ar= e already excellent tools that do their job well. Yes,they work well,but wh= y not add more and different tools that which woul= d allow the creation of bridges between different operating systems ?



The thing is that FreeBSD is actually better. By 2= 006 I was doing with EzJail what many people consider today cutting edge. W= e ventured out on "boutique web hosting" for a while and I single= -handedly administered about 12 bare metal FBSD servers with anywhere betwe= en a dozen to 20+ jails each. Today there's Bastille and much better to= oling and I don't think that FBSD necessarily needs to " fit in&qu= ot; with the container and AWS crowd. FreeBSD invented containers as jails= =C2=A0long before they were reinvented by Linux and Docker. I think the bes= t path=C2=A0is to continue to do what it is good at, which is producing the= most stable and high performance OS on the planet.=C2=A0

I'm not saying that change and evolution are not good, I'm = just saying that I don't see FBSD as a " me too" player. If y= ou look at any company or organization who=C2=A0abandons their core values = to pursue the latest FAD or whatever usually just dissolves into oblivion. = There are tons of example but RadioShack comes to mind, when in the 1990s t= hey decided to almost do everything contrary to the core values... I had wo= rked there as a teen in the 80s and I could not believe what I saw when I v= isited the States in 90s.=C2=A0

Getting Kubern= etes to work over bare metal FBSD --AND-- adding a compatibility layer to p= ull in existing Docker images could make it very attractive for companies a= nd organizations wanting to move away from AWS or Azure back into their own= stacks.. what VMWare failed to do. Initially it could target just developm= ent teams and startups wanting to save on AWS but eventually I think a lot = of companies would want to move away from Amazon or Azure but they just don= 't have a viable alternative.=C2=A0

anyway jus= t my $0.02=C2=A0

Best,

--= =C2=A0
Alex

=C2=A0
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