Re: Docker

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:38:47 +0200, Mario Marietto stated:
> ---> Docker will NEVER run on FreeBSD, because Docker is built on
> technologies which only exist in the Linux kernel.

I have read several articles that state Docker can run on MS Windows. If
that is true, and I have not seen anything that disproves it, then it
can run on technologies other than those found in the Linux kernel.
 
> I don't agree with this. In my humble opinion Docker can run on
> FreeBSD. For sure,not using the same technology that it uses on
> Linux. FreeBSD does not use the kernel of Linux,so it cannot lean on
> it,but I'm sure that it can lean on a lot of linux features that have
> already been implemented on FreeBSD. Maybe they should be improved.
> And on some other technologies that can be created almost from
> scratch. In my opinion Docker does not work in FreeBSD not for
> technical reasons. I'm sure that the technical problems can be solved
> if there is the will,the need to overcome them. Honestly I think it
> doesn't happen because there are habits and internal beliefs in every
> group of OS developers. I'm talking about a certain type of
> closed-mindedness and sense of belonging in a group that you don't
> want to be scratched by tools that come from other types of OS
> cultures. Docker is not needed in FreeBSD because there are already
> similar tools that are working well and many systems engineers have
> spent time and money to learn how to administer them. If docker were
> implemented, these system administrators would continue to use their
> favorite tools (jails), even in the industry / market there are just
> as many well done. Probably a very few FreeBSD admins even want an
> influx of users from linux who could switch to freebsd because of
> that tool that wasn't there before but "now" it is there.
> 
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:29 AM Tim Preston <tim@timpreston.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Mario,
> >
> > I may not have been clear enough in my last email.
> >
> > Docker will NEVER run on FreeBSD, because Docker is built on
> > technologies which only exist in the Linux kernel.
> >
> > FreeBSD cannot run Linux containers, it can only run FreeBSD jails.
> >
> > It's not because FreeBSD programmers think they're more special
> > than Linux programmers, it's just not technically possible.
> >
> > If you want to run any of the Docker images available on the
> > internet you can try the tooling linked by Dave, which MIGHT let
> > you run SOME Docker images inside a FreeBSD jail, using FreeBSD's
> > Linux compatibility layer. But these images really require a Linux
> > kernel to run properly.
> >
> > A better approach, if the applications you want to run are
> > available in ports, or if the source code builds on FreeBSD, is to
> > run them natively in a jail using tools similar to Docker like
> > Bastille ( https://bastillebsd.org/) or Pot
> > (https://github.com/bsdpot/pot).
> >
> > I hope some of this helps.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023, at 8:45 PM, Mario Marietto wrote:
> >
> > ---> If you want the full Linux-compatible Docker experience, then,
> > yes,use Linux, either in a VM, or directly. I don't think there are
> > many FreeBSD people who use only 1 OS, we are by and large
> > pragmatic people. It's ok to use different tools in different
> > situations.
> >
> > But home users usually are poor people. To have a good computer
> > means often to be lucky. I mainly use FreeBSD because I feel good
> > when I use many of its tools. But it often happens that I also need
> > to be able to have some different tool that I like because I tried
> > it in a different system and I liked it. Docker is one of those
> > tools. Users love it,even today,but it is becoming old. For sure
> > there are good technical reasons behind this "love". The
> > development of Docker on FreeBSD stopped a lot of years ago. And
> > the reasons for that stop is not only caused by technical
> > reasons,in my opinion,but,as I said,even by a form of
> > discrimination. The storic FreeBSD users have been trained using
> > its own tools and they won't change. They don't want to spend money
> > to develop a new/old tool that will enrich the tools park ? This
> > mindset is not focused on the satisfaction of those users that
> > could migrate or that want to try FreeBSD,after having used another
> > OS. It is some kind of sectarian mentality. Yes I can run a VM
> > running Linux,but this will waste resources on the machine. Why
> > should I run a whole VM if I need only to run a tool ? If the tool
> > is not widely used,ok,developing it is not worth it. But we are
> > talking of widely used tools here and Docker is one of those tools.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 12:26 PM Mario Marietto
> > <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > For sure there are users / developers that are in the middle,like it
> > happens in the political area. I like this kind of person. I'm one
> > of those people. My criticism is against those users and developers
> > that show an exaggerated "love" and fidelity towards a system,
> > whether by ideology, whether by habit, or by commercial reasons.
> > I'm a frequent visitor to various freebsd forums and I often read
> > opinions radicalized on linux technologies that should not enter
> > the freebsd world, simply because in Freebsd there are already
> > excellent tools that do their job well. Yes,they work well,but why
> > not add more and different tools that which would allow the
> > creation of bridges between different operating systems ?
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 12:17 PM Dave Cottlehuber
> > <dch@skunkwerks.at> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023, at 09:44, Mario Marietto wrote:
> > > Tim,you are wasting your time. It seems that all of these (good)
> > > FreeBSD developers don't want you to use Linux technologies if
> > > you have chosen FreeBSD as the main OS. That's not good and it
> > > sounds like a discriminatory attitude.
> >
> > I think you're mis-representing the position of a lot of people
> > here; please don't do that.
> >
> > The fast-moving Docker.com tech has been moving towards a
> > standards-based "Open Container" https://opencontainers.org/
> > definition, and many people have worked across the standard, the
> > implementation, kernel, & tooling, now in ports on FreeBSD, to make
> > this possible. Just a few examples:
> >
> > - https://github.com/samuelkarp/runj/
> > - https://github.com/dfr/ocijail/
> > - https://medium.com/@dfr/oci-containers-for-freebsd-512a6df2bc85
> >
> > It would be great to get your feedback on one of these and see what
> > you tried, and where it breaks with your expectations.
> >
> > While it may be possible to run many linux containers with this
> > tooling, systemd and other linux-specific things could be present
> > in any container you pull, from systemd, to filesystem
> > requirements, and expecting all of these to work seamlessly is
> > unrealistic.
> >
> > If you want the full Linux-compatible Docker experience, then, yes,
> > use Linux, either in a VM, or directly. I don't think there are many
> > FreeBSD people who use only 1 OS, we are by and large pragmatic
> > people. It's ok to use different tools in different situations.
> >
> > A+
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mario.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mario.
> >
> >
> >
>