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Wed, 12 Apr 2023 14:28:05 +0000 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 14:28:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Steve O'Hara-Smith , Mario Marietto Cc: Tim Preston , freebsd-questions Message-ID: <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <8E16D624-2655-4A10-844A-93E4F63E9859@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <078a1cf8-7ae2-c593-615b-f5f37fa2b3eb@timpreston.net> <06be3a1e-9319-1a21-88b9-4f87328ee127@timpreston.net> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> Subject: Re: Docker List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2770962_1266966976.1681309684070" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21365 YMailNorrin X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4PxQ6b23D6z3r2y X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N ------=_Part_2770962_1266966976.1681309684070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe the simplest thing would be to wrap jails or iocage in an interf= ace that looks like and behaves Docker-like. Many people these days don't care what's under the hood.=C2=A0 All they car= e about is familiarity of interface (GUI) It would be interesting to see the resource utilization and efficiency of '= Docker' versus Jails/Iocage. :) Paul On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 09:15:24 AM GMT-5, Mario Marietto wrote: =20 =20 I'm interested to know what you mean for "real needs",because this is the = point. I imagine that you are thinking about technical needings. I don't th= ink that the most advantages implementing docker will come from that. I thi= nk that mostly advantages could be for the user base. Mostly for those user= s that come from linux or other OS and that already use docker and kubernet= es. I don't think those users are a small number. Those users could jump to= FreeBSD if Docker / Kubernetes are implemented in FreeBSD. This could be t= he straw that broke the camel's back. You may argue that the jails are work= ing already great and that they should use them. I could argue that it's no= t a tolerant behavior to force them to learn a new technology. So,in the en= d I ask to myself and to you : FreeBSD needs to grow in terms of community = ? Does it need to be populated by a greater number of users that will come = from another OS base community ?=20 On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:04=E2=80=AFPM Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:38:47 +0200 Mario Marietto wrote: > ---> Docker will NEVER run on FreeBSD, because Docker is built on > technologies which only exist in the Linux kernel. >=20 > I don't agree with this. In my humble opinion Docker can run on FreeBSD. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 You both need to define what you mean by "run d= ocker", or perhaps just what aspects of docker you expect to see working (or not) in FreeBSD and how. Layering Linux filesystem images from docker.io and running them i= s very unlikely to be feasible. Defining ocijails with Dockerfiles and running them as swarms is likely to be possible with some work. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Then you can do a gap analysis and find out wha= t needs to be done to make it run or prove that it can't be done depending mostly on what you mean by "run docker". =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Having done that the next question is whether t= he result would fill a real need. --=20 Steve O'Hara-Smith --=20 Mario. =20 ------=_Part_2770962_1266966976.1681309684070 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe the simplest thing= would be to wrap jails or iocage in an interface that looks like and behav= es Docker-like.

Many people these days don't care what's = under the hood.  All they care about is familiarity of interface (GUI)=

It would be interesting to see the resource utilization = and efficiency of 'Docker' versus Jails/Iocage. :)

Paul

=20
=20
On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 09:15:24 AM GMT-5, Mari= o Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:


I'm interested to know what you mean for "real needs",because this is t= he point. I imagine that you are thinking about technical needings. I don't= think that the most advantages implementing docker will come from that. I = think that mostly advantages could be for the user base. Mostly for those u= sers that come from linux or other OS and that already use docker and kuber= netes. I don't think those users are a small number. Those users could jump= to FreeBSD if Docker / Kubernetes are implemented in FreeBSD. This could b= e the straw= that broke the camel's back. You may argue that the jails are worki= ng already great and that they should use them. I could argue that it's not= a tolerant= behavior to force them to learn a new technology. So,in the end I ask to m= yself and to you : FreeBSD needs to grow in terms of community ? Does it ne= ed to be populated by a greater number of users that will come from another= OS base community ? 
=


On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:04=E2=80=AFPM Stev= e O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:38:47 +0200
Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---> Docker will NEVER run on FreeBSD, because Docker is built on > technologies which only exist in the Linux kernel.
>
> I don't agree with this. In my humble opinion Docker can run on FreeBS= D.

        You both need to define what you mean by "run d= ocker", or perhaps
just what aspects of docker you expect to see working (or not) in FreeBSD and how. Layering Linux filesystem images from docker.io and runnin= g them is
very unlikely to be feasible. Defining ocijails with Dockerfiles and
running them as swarms is likely to be possible with some work.

        Then you can do a gap analysis and find out wha= t needs to be done
to make it run or prove that it can't be done depending mostly on what you<= br clear=3D"none"> mean by "run docker".

        Having done that the next question is whether t= he result would fill
a real need.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>


--
Mari= o.
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