Re: my isp has trouble with its own dhcp assignment
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 22:17:37 UTC
On 10/18/22 12:47 AM, David Christensen wrote: > On 10/17/22 12:41, spellberg_robert wrote: >> 22_oct_17_mon 19.35.utc >> >> >> >> howdy , folks ; long time , no post . >> why ? >> because , when compared to 20 - 40 years ago , when i --loved-- it , >> email has become the most_royal of pains to use . >> >> please forgive this brief digression ; it is relevant . >> >> i spent 6 hours , yesterday , >> typing a detailed account of the symptoms and >> the eventual identification of that >> which i believe to be the actual problem >> with my isp's dhcp server . >> >> when sending , >> i got the password wrong [ correct chars , wrong order ] . >> believing that i was closing the dialog_box for the password , >> i closed the composition window . >> after wrestling w/ thunderbird for an hour w/o finding the message , >> i resorted to the tried_and_true bsd approach ; >> with hd and vi , i found , finally , a copy in a file called "Sent" . >> because the email was never sent , >> this is the exact place in which to save it . >> i believe that the jargon for this characteristic is "feature" . >> >> ok ; so , i did not lose the 6 hours of typing [ whew ! ] . >> >> i copied the relevant lines from "Sent" into its own file . >> --but-- , for the life of me , i can not get thunderbird to >> bring this file into a new composition window , >> except as an "attachment" [ which i can not see ] . >> >> iirc , email_"attachment"s are strongly discouraged on this list . >> so , it is --not-- included w/ this post . >> how_ever , i could be wrong . >> if it --is-- permissible to do so , >> then i will be happy to send it w/ a subsequent post . >> >> >> >> here is the abridged version of my problem . >> >> i have built backup_hardware for my gateway box . >> >> in the event of a hardware failure , >> a] power_down failed_box , >> b] detach cables , >> c] swap boxen , >> d] attach cables , >> e] power_up good_box w/ auto_boot w/ dhclient . >> >> during the testing of the new box , >> i have found that the isp's dhcp server returns an address >> which works only partially or not_at_all >> [ it is a different address , always ; should it be ? ] . >> >> because the existing box has not failed , >> ifconfig tells me its real identity . >> >> if i use , manually , the "add" form of the ifconfig command , >> with this address , then , >> suddenly , everything works perfectly . >> >> --but-- , i did this manually , not by using dhcp . >> i must assume that i do not know the prior address . >> >> the handbook and various man_pages discuss , at length , >> the case of a roving lap_top , w/ multiple isps . >> in this case , i have multiple clients and a constant isp ; >> this is not discussed . >> >> >> >> is there a way for my client to persuade the isp's server to >> "bind" my client to an address which the isp will accept ? >> >> what is the etiquette regarding >> email_"attachment"s in postings to this list ? >> >> is there a way to get a text_file >> [ perhaps , created w/ vi ] >> into a thunderbird composition window ? >> >> >> >> tia >> >> rob > 22_oct_20_thu 22.10.utc salut , david --- a priori : thank you , thank you , thank you . [ 20_thu 19.20.ish in proof_reading this , before sending it off , i have found that the amount of information is extensive . there_fore , i revise the above to : a priori : merci infiniment . i appreciate , very_much , your willingness and your time . ] another etiquette question : when i reply to the list , should i "cc" to the poster , also ? erring on the side of caution , i have done so , this time , as the deletion of an extra copy is easy to accomplish . > > Regarding the IP address(es) assigned to your Internet service point by > your ISP, it depends upon your ISP, which Internet service plan you > have, and which hardware the ISP provided to you. > this makes sense . > > Regarding attachments to mailing list posts, my approach is as follows: > > 1. If the attachment is text and small, include the content in the post. > > 2. Otherwise, upload the content to a web server and include the URL in > the post. > this is useful to know ; how_ever , ... > > Regarding getting text file contents into an e-mail message using a > graphical workstation, one method is to open the file in Mousepad, > Notepad, etc., select the desired text, copy the selected text to the > clipboard, switch to the Thunderbird message composition window, and > paste the clipboard contents. > ... the above generated an idea . i do not have the named "pad"s ; but , i tried the following and it worked . open the text_file in a firefox "new_tab" . select from the ul_corner to the lr_corner . <ctrl_c> position the cursor in the thunderbird composition_window . <ctrl_v> [ because this procedure worked , i have rejected the "attachment" approach ; the original post has been replicated at the end of this post , in its entirety , verbatim , including some headers , between two horizontal rules of seven hyphens , each . much of the requested information is there , already . ] this has the advantage of permitting an original creation , of a post , to be done in vi . un_fortunately , this flavor of tb erases drop_down_lists immediately , thus , i can not "save" the file any_where ; but , i can "send" it . keying <ctrl_s> has the same behavior . [ hmmm ... , per_haps , i can extract it from "mbox" [ i use , also , fetchmail ] . ] > > If the above responses are insufficient, please answer the following > questions: > > 1. What is the location of your Internet service point? > geographically , we are in rural mc_henry county , illinois , usa , roughly mid_way between woodstock and harvard . if you meant some_thing else , then please advise . > 2. Who is your ISP? Please provide a URL. > https://www.risebroadband.com > 3. What Internet service plan do you have? Please provide a URL. > https://www.risebroadband,com/residential > 4. What is the make and model of the access device provided by the ISP? > Please provide a URL. > if you mean the roof_top antenna , then i do not know . how_ever , i can attempt to learn by making a phone_call . it is my very serious hope that this is --not-- what you seek ; customer_service is --not-- this isp's strong_point [ --some-- clerks --are-- very_good ] . possibly , this is because i have berkeley_unix boxen , only . on the other hand , if you mean the "thingy" , which the isp calls a "router" , then we do not have one . the gateway box is directly connected to the roof_top antenna , with rj45 and poe . the gateway does two things , packet_filtering and nat . the isp never sees any internal traffic . > 5. You seem to be discussing several computers -- a gateway computer, a > backup gateway computer, and several clients (presumably, one is a > graphical workstation with Thunderbird). Please clarify how many > computers you have and their roles. > [ please refer to the post , below . ] in general , there are many machines , on 192.168.100.0/24 , but , for now , only three are involved with the out_side world . these are : natasha 192.168.100.200 i386 8.1 catherine 192.168.100.143 amd64 11.4 113 192.168.100.113 amd64 11.3 natalie 192.168.100.201 amd64 11.3 as user natasha 192.168.100.200 amd64 11.3 as gateway > 6. Please pick one computer and let us work on that one. When that is > fixed, pick another computer and start a new thread. > agreed . assuming that the 11.3_natasha config is successful , then_ the plan is to replicate the fix onto 12.3_natasha ; this "should work" [ of course , i could be wrong ] . with the existing 8.1_natasha , i will have two gateways . this accomplishes partial redundancy . now that the next 3 release schedules have been announced , i will wait until 23_jan . the remaining two i3_8100 boxen will be configured on 12.4 ; the 12.3 will be re_done on 12.4 and the 8.1 will be retired . well , ... , it's a plan . > 7. What is the make and model of the computer? Which CPU? How much > memory? What storage devices? Please provide URL(s). > i build my own mid_tower boxen [ see below ] . the user boxen are i3/5/7 "skylake" , 64_GB , 1/2/4_TB seagate "constellation_es.3" . next_year , some_time , "skylake" will be replaced with "rocket_lake" [ even though the "skylake" works just_fine , i want to try_out the new "avx_512" instructions ] . the new gateways are 16_GB , same seagate . the 8.1 has , may_be , 256_MB and western_digital "cavier_blue" or "_black" . > 8. Which FreeBSD installer did you use? What questions were you asked > and how did you answer them? > the one which is included with the applicable amd64/dvd or i386/cd image_file . uhhh , ... , all of them and honestly [ to the best of my under_standing ] . broadly_speaking , i install every_thing , including the ports_tree . hard_drives are extensively partitioned , to make full back_ups faster . [ actually , 113 was not partitioned , because of the confusingly worded question , in the installer . i wanted to use "fbsd only" --and-- i wanted to "partition" [ --but-- , not for other "os"es ] . i guessed the wrong answer . because of this , i chose to not finish the config any farther than necessary ; this includes not naming it "francoise" . it --has-- proved to be a useful second firefox platform , because its ff_67 displays "pdf"_files , while the ff_88 on 11.4_catherine , mostly , does_not do so . ] i want to be helpful , here ; if the above is in_sufficient , then please advise . > 9. Please run the following commands and post your complete console > session -- prompt, commands entered, output printed: > > # freebsd-version ; uname -a > well ; you asked for it ; but tb forces wrap_around at 72 chars [ this --must-- be a "feature" ] ; i will indicate this situation w/ "[tb72]" . note_that : all boxen have a non_privileged user in group "wheel" . catherine --------- --0-- pts/8 root @ catherine.ntrprnr.com. 2022_Oct_19_Wed[tb72] 13:05:23.utc /tmp 3888 # freebsd-version ; uname -a 11.4-RELEASE FreeBSD catherine.ntrprnr.com 11.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 11.4-RELEASE #0[tb72] r362094: Fri Jun 12 18:27:15 UTC 2020 root@releng2.nyi.freebsd[tb72] .org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 113 --- --0-- pts/2 root @ 113.ntrprnr.com. 2022_Oct_19_Wed[tb72] 17:12:24.utc / 310 # freebsd-version ; uname -a 11.3-RELEASE FreeBSD 113.ntrprnr.com 11.3-RELEASE FreeBSD 11.3-RELEASE #0[tb72] r349754: Fri Jul 5 04:45:24 UTC 2019 root@releng2.nyi.freebsd[tb72] .org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 natasha 8.1 ----------- --0-- pts/1 root@natasha.ntrprnr.com. 2022_Oct_19_Wed[tb72] 17:32:30.gmt /+shadow/etc/d.resolv_dot_conf 306 # freebsd-version ; uname -a freebsd-version: Command not found. FreeBSD natasha.ntrprnr.com 8.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE #0[tb72] : Mon Jul 19 02:55:53 UTC 2010 root@almeida.cse.buffalo.edu[tb72] :/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 natalie 11.3 ------------ --0-- ttyv0 root @ natalie.ntrprnr.com. 2022_Oct_19_Wed[tb72] 17:55:30.utc /root 310 # freebsd-version ; uname -a 11.3-RELEASE FreeBSD natalie.ntrprnr.com 11.3-RELEASE FreeBSD 11.3-RELEASE #0[tb72] r349754: Fri Jul 5 04:45:24 UTC 2019 root@releng2.nyi.freebsd[tb72] .org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 > # cat /etc/rc.conf > > in this case , i know what you meant ; but , i do not do this in the same manner as do many . i start by copying /etc/defaults/rc.conf to a new file . then , i add a comment marker to the beginning of every line . last , i un_comment those lines which are desired to be operative . additionally , i rationalize the formatting , to eliminate the 80_column constraint [ i use 320 ] . just like /etc/defaults/rc.conf , these files have hundreds of lines . in this way , when editing , i do not have to switch back_and_forth between two_or_more files . /etc/rc.conf is , it_self , a sym_link . thus , those which follow are the default over_rides , --only-- ; they appear in /etc/defaults/rc.conf order . natalie 11.3 ------------ note_that : the dummy_config of em0 eliminates some extra boot messages ; when booted as natalie , no cable is attached , here . powerd_enable="YES" # common hostname="natalie.ntrprnr.com" ifconfig_em0="inet 192.168.100.202/24" # this is a dummy config . ipv4_addrs_re0="192.168.100.201/24" local_unbound_enable="YES" sshd_enable="YES" # common ftpd_enable="YES" # common default_router="192.168.100.200" keymap="us" # common keyrate="fast" # common cursor="blink" # common font8x16="iso-8x16.fnt" # common font8x14="iso-8x14.fnt" # common font8x8="iso-8x8.fnt" # common blanktime="NO" # common moused_enable="YES" # common dumpdev="AUTO" # common natasha 11.3 ------------ powerd_enable="YES" # common hostname="natasha.ntrprnr.com" ipfilter_enable="YES" ipnat_enable="YES" ipmon_enable="YES" ifconfig_em0="DHCP" ipv4_addrs_re0="192.168.100.200/24" sshd_enable="YES" # common ftpd_enable="YES" # common gateway_enable="YES" keymap="us" # common keyrate="fast" # common cursor="blink" # common font8x16="iso-8x16.fnt" # common font8x14="iso-8x14.fnt" # common font8x8="iso-8x8.fnt" # common blanktime="NO" # common moused_enable="YES" # common dumpdev="AUTO" # common natasha 8.1 ----------- hostname="natasha.ntrprnr.com." ipfilter_enable="YES" ipnat_enable="YES" ipmon_enable="YES" ifconfig_em0="DHCP" ipv4_addrs_re0="192.168.100.200/24" inetd_enable="YES" named_enable="YES" sshd_enable="YES" ftpd_enable="YES" gateway_enable="YES" icmp_bmcastecho="YES" keymap="us.iso" keyrate="fast" cursor="blink" font8x16="iso-8x16" font8x14="iso-8x14" font8x8="iso-8x8" blanktime="NO" moused_enable="YES" lpd_enable="YES" linux_enable="YES" catherine 11.4 -------------- powerd_enable="YES" hostname="catherine.ntrprnr.com" ifconfig_re0="inet 192.168.100.143 netmask 255.255.255.0" local_unbound_enable="YES" sshd_enable="YES" ftpd_enable="YES" default_router="192.168.100.200" moused_enable="YES" lpd_enable="YES" dumpdev="AUTO" linux_enable="YES" 113 11.3 -------- hostname="113.ntrprnr.com" ifconfig_re0="inet 192.168.100.113 netmask 255.255.255.0" inetd_enable="YES" local_unbound_enable="YES" sshd_enable="YES" ftpd_enable="YES" default_router="192.168.100.200" icmp_bmcastecho="YES" keymap="us" keyrate="fast" cursor="blink" font8x16="iso-8x16.fnt" font8x14="iso-8x14.fnt" font8x8="iso-8x8.fnt" blanktime="NO" moused_enable="YES" lpd_enable="YES" dumpdev="AUTO" linux_enable="YES" > 10. If the computer is graphical, which window manager or desktop > environment are you using? > user/client machines have x installed ; the wm is "twm" . gateways do not have x [ well , strictly_speaking , one does ; but , it was never configured ; there_fore , it is never started ] . > 11. Are you using ports or packages? What ports and/or packages have > you installed? > > packages . 11.4 catherine -------------- xorg 7.7_3 used extensively firefox 88.0.1_1,2 used extensively thunderbird 78.10.2 used moderately no_flush fetchmail 6.4.18 used after thunderbird w/ flush nasm 2.15.05,1 dedicated_purpose apache-openoffice 4.1.10 not_used libreoffice6 6.4.7_9 not_used xpdf4 4.03,1 not_used xpdf 4.02,1 not_used xpdf3 3.04_11 not_used tcl86 8.6.11_1 great syntax , sloppy arithmetic tcllib 1.20 tk86 8.6.11_2 not_used dvd+rw-tools 7.1_3 used occasionally 11.3 113 -------- xorg 7.7_3 used extensively firefox 67.0.2_2,1 used extensively thunderbird 60.7.1 not_used 8.1 natasha ----------- none 11.3 natasha/natalie -------------------- xorg 7.7_3 not_used ; never_configured firefox 67.0.2_2,1 not_used thunderbird 60.7.1 not_used m4 1.4.18_1,1 not_used 12.3 natasha/natalie -------------------- bind 9.16.31 use tbd > David > ------- From - Mon Oct 17 01:35:41 2022 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000 X-Mozilla-Keys: BCC: emailrob@emailrob.com Reply-To: emailrob@emailrob.com To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: spellberg_robert <emailrob@risebroadband.net> Subject: new gateway box runs slowly or partially - dhcp issue ? Message-ID: <073d90ea-efe9-f571-f265-d41569f09f1d@risebroadband.net> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2022 01:33:43 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 22_oct_16_sun 25.26.utc howdy , folks --- long time , no post . here is hoping that all of you_and_yours are doing well ; we are doing ok . my existing gateway has well_over a decade of 24/7 use ; fbsd i386 8.1 on micro_atx celeron_440 [ 65 nm , "cedar mill" ] . my objective is to build two new boxen , so that , when one fails , a known_good replacement can be swapped_in . these would be rotated every 4 or 5 weeks . i already have multiple "user" machines , so this is [ nearly ] the last redundancy to be implemented [ i need a backup isp , also ] . as we all learn , sooner_or_later , hardware fails . i started this 2_1/2 years ago , so the parts for 4 boxen are based upon the i3_8100 , h310 chip_set . at that time , the release was 11.3 , so that is one of the configurations which i used . later , i re_started the config w/ 12.3 ; how_ever , the recent success occurred w/ the 11.3 version ; this will be described below . except for the differences between the 11.3 and 12.3 releases , the two configs are identical [ of course , i could be wrong , but , i do not believe so ] . thus , a "fix" for 11.3 "should work" on 12.3 . the gory details : 8.1 natasha re0 192.168.100.200/24 <--> em0 dhcp gateway 11.3 natasha re0 192.168.100.200/24 <--> em0 dhcp gateway 11.3 natalie re0 192.168.100.201/24 <--> em0 dummy_config user all use ipfilter/ipnat/ipmon ; the ".rules" files are "ftp"_copies , from the 8.1 box . natalie/natasha 11.3 has two rc.conf files : all development is done on natalie ; then , change one sym_link , power_down , swap cables , boot as natasha ; same name , same 1918_address , make dhcp request . when done testing , change the sym_link , power_down , swap cables , boot as natalie . the development process is fairly simple and this procedure mimics the expected future routine operation . note_that : when the 11.3 box is natasha , then natasha 8.1 remains booted , but , its network cables [ .200 , dhcp ] are plugged into 11.3 ; also , the natalie cable [ .201 ] is detached and un_connected . the current 8.1 dhcp assignment is 66.114.191.36/25 [ iirc , i have seen , also , .39 ] ; when 11.3 is booted as natasha , the dhcp "bound to" address is , recently , 172.19.65.233/27 [ also , .239 , .240 , .241 ] . these come from [ DHCPOFFER , DHCPACK ] 66.114.187.249 [ always ] . some observations : when natalie and the other user_machines are going through 8.1 , which is using the 66. address , then , every_thing is "just_fine , thank_you" , as expected . ping and traceroute , to 8.8.8.8 , establish a base_line of "normalcy" [ 7 - 15 ms , 13 hops [ 9 belong to my isp ] ] . interestingly , on the 8.1_box , it_self , ping and traceroute generate "Network is unreachable" messages . also , on 12.3 [ but , not 11.3 ] , natalie successfully retrieved the package for bind_9.16.31 , from where_ever [ thus , resolution works ] . --how_ever-- , when the user_machines are going through the 11.3 box , which is using the 172. address , then , for 8.8.8.8 , ping never returns and traceroute goes permanently "* * *" after , maybe , 6 hops [ iirc , i let it go for 30 - 40 ; much more than 13 ] . ping and traceroute succeed w/ 66.114.187.249 , above ; this is hop 2 , after the gateway , 192.168.100.200 . thus , they --do-- work ; they just do not go very far . on the 11.3 box , it_self , ping and traceroute generate the same "Network is unreachable" messages . the discovery : although i had started this in 20_feb , i have been rather obsessed since 22_apr . spending at least part of almost every week_end on this , because i was making no progress , every_thing became suspect . are my config_files correct ? am i spelling commands correctly ? did some_body change some code , but not note the change in the man_page ? i choose to believe that i can solve almost any fbsd problem [ at least , for the things that --i-- do ] ; but , after a_while , a person begins to doubt themselves . 22_sep_25_sun : i had noticed that the two dhcp assignments were different . i was reading the man_page for ifconfig . i had seen the concept of "alias" and i had seen the option of "add" . on the 8.1 box , netstat -inW reported the network as "66.114.191.0/" [ on 8.1 , the -W option has no effect ] . so , on the previous sun [ sep_18 ] , i had tried ifconfig em0 inet 66.114.191.36/24 add but , it did not work . how_ever , i noticed that the network specification was in_complete . i had assumed that it was a /24 . a check with ifconfig confirmed that my assumption was wrong [ that'll teach me ] . try again : ifconfig em0 inet 66.114.191.36/25 add MIRACLE_OF_MIRACLES !!! it was like the parting of the red sea . every_thing was wide_open . ping and traceroute worked as well as they did on the 8.1 box . firefox had no trouble w/ "radar.weather.gov" , nor with "forecast.weather.gov" . after watching this , with smug satisfaction , for several minutes , i deleted the alias , because it had not been obtained by dhcp . i have no way of knowing how long any address assignment will last . finally , the question [ and the crowd goes wild ] : un_fortunately , this discovery does not solve the problem ; it succeeds , only , in identifying it . it seems to me that the isp should be assigning the existing address, rather than assign a new address and , then , not_or_partially honor that new address . after all , they already know the identity of the existing address . why change it . in reading various man_pages and the hand_book , i find a bias in the examples which are given . the common premise is that of a single [ constant ] lap_top , attached to a wandering human , which human appears at different locations , for the purpose of connecting to different isps , through the use of something , which is called "wi_fi" . my situation is the inverse of this ; i have one [ constant ] isp and multiple clients . this situation is not discussed . if the client_machine is the constant , then , probably , there exists a "data_base" file , which file lists prior "leases" . suppose that the removed_box is being replaced because its hd will_not "spin_up" . there needs to be a way to get the isp's dhcp_server to assign an address , which address will be accepted by the isp . i suspect that i may have to talk to my isp about this ; but , then , maybe_not . maybe , this is some_thing which can be solved at my end , completely [ that would be nice ] . it may be that i need to spend money to get a "static" ip_assignment . how_ever , if i am going to do that , then i may want to get a /29 ; i want my own mail_server and that means 2 authoritative name_servers [ an early version of bind_9 is on the 8.1 box ; i find bind to be straight_forward ] . regard_less , before i inquire of the isp , i wanted to learn whether_or_not any_one who reads this list has any experience with a problem of this type . this is the premise : back_up__hardware is A Good Thing ; this is the question : how do i get the back_up__hardware to protocol with the isp's dhcp_server to assign an address [ same or different , from recent use ] which will be accepted by the isp ? tia rob ps --- sorry about the length , but , on this list , it is my opinion that it is better to err on the side of thorough_ness . -------