On Dec = 10, 2022, at 11:47 AM, Ian Smith <smithi@nimnet.asn.au> = wrote:

On 10 December 2022 = 5:22:43 pm AEDT, Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> = wrote:

On Fri, 9 Dec = 2022 23:48:30 -0500, Kevin P. Neal wrote:

On Fri, Dec 09, 2022 at 05:04:52AM +0000, Steve = O'Hara-Smith wrote:

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 22:58:01 = -0600
"Dan Mahoney (Ports)" <freebsd@gushi.org> = wrote:

All,

I=E2=80=99m just noticing that the standard = FreeBSD iso is some = 959
megs:

http://ftp.freebs= d.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/ISO-IMAGES/12.4/FreeBSD-12.4-RELEASE-amd64-disc= 1.iso

Is there something in the release notes that basically = implies
we no
longer = expect people to burn things to actual = discs?

You need a DVD - it's been some = time since it fitted on a = CD
<sigh>
I still remember doing installs = from floppies.

So... what's the point of the "disc1" image that today = requires a
DVD if
there's = also a "dvd" image made to be burned to a = DVD?

I've been asking = this ("complaining about it") in the past.
As it seems, the regular = 650 MB / 700 MG size of a CD can
no longer hold a FreeBSD = installation... which is strange,
because if it would be possible to = reduce the amount of
packages (!) on the disc, it would be suitable = for use

Sorry, = but there are no packages at all on disc1, or the equivalently sized = memstick. Only the dvd1 image has any packages, 932 in ~2.2GB

with CD media = again, as it was in the past: The classic
"4 CDs approach" of older = FreeBSD versions contained:

CD #1 with system installation = and _some_ packages

CD #2 with a live = system

CDs #3 and #4 with all other packages

So CD #1 = could always be used to install a working OS, and
you could also = install some packages (like X, Midnigh Commander,
joe, vim, and other = useful stuff). For the ultimate selection
of packages, discs #3 and = #4 would be used (if needed), ot
the installation could continue via = Internet. However, a
complete offline installation was = possible.

Indeed. = Trev Roydhouse used to mail me his hand-me-down 4 CD Walnut Creek = sets; we had 2.0.5 (?), 2.2.6 which enabled the nimnet.asn.au server in '98, later = 3.something, 4.5 ...

OTOH = that was an AMD 586 140MHz box with 2GB RAM and a 4GB hdd, later 20GB, = with CDR later CD-RW, with 1 dialout and 3 dialup modems.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to = be.

I've been working on = retrieving the offline install possibility for months, and managed with = some tricks and patches to get 'bsdconfig packages' working on the 12.3 = dvd1 image to install X, KDE and some utilities, all offline - but it's = considered a weird thing to want to do these days ... what "third world = connectivity"?

Strange thing: = The "bootonly" and "minimal install" images
intended for use with USB = media _could_ fit on a CD.

Still = can, bootonly.iso is ~355MB, mini-memstick is ~360MB.

But full installers, even without any = packages, really can't; everything has swollen that much. Here are = sizes >1MiB on (amd64) disc1:

2 =      /bin
2 =      /etc
3 =      /var
8 =      /sbin
13 =    /lib
156 = /boot
812 /usr
993 /

3 =     /usr/libexec
19 =   /usr/sbin
20 =   /usr/lib
40 =   /usr/bin
127 = /usr/share
605 = /usr/freebsd-dist
812 = /usr

/usr/freebsd-dist has, = all as .txz:
tests =            13
kernel =         44
ports =           45
lib32 =           62
kernel-dbg 83
src =             17= 1
base =          191
total 605MB

I still = rely on booting from CD on a regular basis. There are USB cdroms = in all my datacenters, and =E2=80=9Cburn an iso to disc=E2=80=9D still = feels way more useful to tell remote hands how to do than trying to = explain how to image an iso onto a memory stick (which can vary based on = formatting and OS).

Much as I love my idracs, = at the day job we still have a number of older systems limping along = doing Important Internet Things where that reinstall use-case matters. = (How I got them all upgraded to current versions of FreeBSD may be = my BSDCan talk).

CDs are still the lowest = common denominator.

Not all of the above = freebsd-dist files are equal. You need kernel and base to get a = running system. Everything else can be gotten = later.

Ports basically requires an active = internet connection to build anything =E2=80=94 putting it on the disc = is largely pointless. Portsnap is in = base.

Src is outdated as soon as it=E2=80=99s = extracted in most cases, and user education as to =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=99s = how you get the source if you need it=E2=80=9D would serve us = better.

Kernel-dbg is also not the kind of thing most = people are going to need without having net access, but I could see if = being useful for doing things like bringing up new boards, lab systems, = special configurations.

So =E2=80=94 = if we eliminated src, and just started teaching people that if you want = to build things from src, you should get them from git, or the = src.tar.xz on the ftp site, things would still fit easily for a while to = come.

-Dan

= --Apple-Mail=_FA420F85-C24B-442E-BE82-8F750A600293--