From nobody Sat Dec 10 17:47:15 2022 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4NTwMq4Jb3z4jnBl for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 17:47:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from se6.syd.hostingplatform.net.au (se6.syd.hostingplatform.net.au [IPv6:2400:b800:5::52]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4NTwMp5Gkgz3JDb for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 17:47:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au ([103.27.34.4]) by se6.syd.hostingplatform.net.au with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p43wg-0002MO-Bm for questions@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 04:47:38 +1100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nimnet.asn.au; s=default; h=Message-ID:From:CC:To:Subject: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To: Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xiQ6gCavZViTw2TJ/7rnLG5YdAUM3anjPwcMp5LhnuQ=; b=MZiLEy4qXVLDdr7IT62PrPH/q5 gR+2aECoVZxfvDXq9APRmvM5tZ2P7Z9RIKcdLZAuwC62KaAbOEFqyhKBSu+4MnSvm4CrzlREJSx/c T7m/AuDLX+dMokb1UiJ2i7LrYNdrdS0BKyWJAgbOroGX9e/vb5Txgw5x7ik+VZk7/Lx63Jn4VZCzt 4RuwWz+tQZ0Vpu63mQqx31bZbPQ/vuTHrU6JjzwnZQJ4AYDBmD05atmVPli8620/0l4J3QKx+SjFM UFwtF//wd9URyW5Y8wSp79c6OtkR3+PO/59pB9YF4F14hJy6DFce6bnfVsfTr4NmwNgLJZa49zjGe 2lf4ebEg==; Received: from [1.144.207.11] (port=46183 helo=Galaxy-J5-Pro) by s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1p43wd-000lK0-1c; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 04:47:27 +1100 Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 04:47:15 +1100 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <20221210072243.9109d9c9.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <4AC6140B-2927-46C4-8405-18FA872DEAB5@gushi.org> <20221209050452.40918a6bcccb953c197ecec6@sohara.org> <20221210072243.9109d9c9.freebsd@edvax.de> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: 12.4 disc 1 iso is really large To: Polytropon ,"Kevin P. Neal" CC: Steve O'Hara-Smith ,"Dan Mahoney (Ports)" ,questions@FreeBSD.org From: Ian Smith Message-ID: <6B0B7DD7-8562-4E77-8809-768DB6E8ADFC@nimnet.asn.au> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - nimnet.asn.au X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au: authenticated_id: smithi@nimnet.asn.au X-Authenticated-Sender: s121.syd3.hostingplatform.net.au: smithi@nimnet.asn.au X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Originating-IP: 103.27.34.4 X-SpamExperts-Domain: out-3.hostingplatform.net.au X-SpamExperts-Username: 103.27.34.4 X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: ham X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.15) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Pt3MvcO5N4iKaDQ5O6lkdGlMVN6RH8bjRMzItlySaT9WLQux0N3HQm8ltz8rnu+BPUtbdvnXkggZ 3YnVId/Y5jcf0yeVQAvfjHznO7+bT5xvLEOBbT1XKgR/Y7v+xkdq3H+i+b+J0sqYZ7qdntuFMNcV PSoHm0W/3adFfiYl2nv21nILERdqwKQO7lZtF8bw/T4GcPvCLvSpAEEGy7kYxorAt+siDBP9xxcm oVGDOrNVGrp2mkTqyqZTeTGseBN6hFHN71l54rACCRHfNouFNpuBoKRbycab+xivlMZxSt3V784Z AnZq2JW70fAC9gkiwEjU70hqHQfv/n8OIGkOTmNQ4NQp/4X4JvMf78aNCvMAKQlQdTfwbSciar+2 JCMst0dEunmtVTQWqR0MJGYnYGBIZS4rRgm1GD0QN7Psq7kMoOLjGsRz/MUE6aIZoCcUNXR4aVG4 tVHU1Zldyy+zffRki4F4QVFPj2p7OlUOs27n+17tVhIdLDeSsKRuXhdvL4QFy0eB/isP83e9uHLE BeHTPI/rzJIRbhotX0RECi7kpFW0bjAnA2u5xu022M/lLUw5MY3VG0HxGZ+ft/9JF4FwePnf9uyw M+J4ElP9X0HdZh03ExTqDquACpNsmDrlcntZzD+8euQ3PTJH+fGZGHMcN6qoXPjenLhIOF1oeRb8 2hx/5HnfpIsCd/W/PCtCi2Z2wpYgSa3EQIt61zmxY61xelSTfuQYg0ux7Nl51tUZbxiCGDthfkCX 0CVoFc3euSKNTEp3fPS9t/vPx+AgLE1ApSwq92znw3dBwC5byCaLBDMrD7q/cJogwbqzsuok7gAQ YIqiHEj3Pcep26XdvnOs3oJxPwTOpF2Q4nG0t+hlMDvY1Q26cFutbiPIGy6V+Dm4aZUkcYySy9iN kxOl3egVTaqe87eZPkkqg3wErNblu6BVLnOB/rt7wcDbbBA00xmQvzCpA0tU+p9L3xZQP9NlaWnT QEdHUkdr3oHZsGDOnC5s/4F8e5uR/xqqfZWkNKQUobI7huBVoZeJJKD+WKEsmgNU80KTDQcWwe0S 4mB30j5nlErnGbOGRQ3KaeE391IyW7bVDpANUQvyZzPgihL3FhyCT+8vOSJGHGnDZXw8f9eIYW4H Vh/UxFgv3Vl8SugHuMPfP9NtOxkpv0M3bEqPjumnp8Gmev19nmuGQVM= X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@se.syd.hostingplatform.net.au X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4NTwMp5Gkgz3JDb X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:45638, ipnet:2400:b800:5::/48, country:AU] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 10 December 2022 5:22:43 pm AEDT, Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 23:48:30 -0500, Kevin P=2E Neal wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 09, 2022 at 05:04:52AM +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > > On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 22:58:01 -0600 > > > "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" wrote: > > > > All, > > > >=20 > > > > I=E2=80=99m just noticing that the standard FreeBSD iso is some 9= 59 > megs: > > > > > http://ftp=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/pub/FreeBSD/releases/ISO-IMAGES/12=2E4/FreeB= SD-12=2E4-RELEASE-amd64-disc1=2Eiso > > > >=20 > > > > Is there something in the release notes that basically implies > we no > > > > longer expect people to burn things to actual discs? > > > You need a DVD - it's been some time since it fitted on a CD > > > > I still remember doing installs from floppies=2E > > So=2E=2E=2E what's the point of the "disc1" image that today requires= a > DVD if > > there's also a "dvd" image made to be burned to a DVD? > I've been asking this ("complaining about it") in the past=2E > As it seems, the regular 650 MB / 700 MG size of a CD can > no longer hold a FreeBSD installation=2E=2E=2E which is strange, > because if it would be possible to reduce the amount of > packages (!) on the disc, it would be suitable for use Sorry, but there are no packages at all on disc1, or the equivalently size= d memstick=2E Only the dvd1 image has any packages, 932 in ~2=2E2GB=20 > with CD media again, as it was in the past: The classic > "4 CDs approach" of older FreeBSD versions contained: >=20 > CD #1 with system installation and _some_ packages >=20 > CD #2 with a live system >=20 > CDs #3 and #4 with all other packages >=20 > So CD #1 could always be used to install a working OS, and > you could also install some packages (like X, Midnigh Commander, > joe, vim, and other useful stuff)=2E For the ultimate selection > of packages, discs #3 and #4 would be used (if needed), ot > the installation could continue via Internet=2E However, a > complete offline installation was possible=2E Indeed=2E Trev Roydhouse used to mail me his hand-me-down 4 CD Walnut Cre= ek sets; we had 2=2E0=2E5 (?), 2=2E2=2E6 which enabled the nimnet=2Easn=2Ea= u server in '98, later 3=2Esomething, 4=2E5 =2E=2E=2E OTOH that was an AMD 586 140MHz box with 2GB RAM and a 4GB hdd, later 20GB= , with CDR later CD-RW, with 1 dialout and 3 dialup modems=2E Nostalgia ain't what it used to be=2E I've been working on retrieving the offline install possibility for months= , and managed with some tricks and patches to get 'bsdconfig packages' work= ing on the 12=2E3 dvd1 image to install X, KDE and some utilities, all offl= ine - but it's considered a weird thing to want to do these days =2E=2E=2E = what "third world connectivity"? > Strange thing: The "bootonly" and "minimal install" images > intended for use with USB media _could_ fit on a CD=2E Still can, bootonly=2Eiso is ~355MB, mini-memstick is ~360MB=2E But full installers, even without any packages, really can't; everything h= as swollen that much=2E Here are sizes >1MiB on (amd64) disc1: 2 /bin 2 /etc 3 /var 8 /sbin 13 /lib 156 /boot 812 /usr 993 / 3 /usr/libexec 19 /usr/sbin 20 /usr/lib 40 /usr/bin 127 /usr/share 605 /usr/freebsd-dist 812 /usr /usr/freebsd-dist has, all as =2Etxz: tests 13 kernel 44 ports 45 lib32 62 kernel-dbg 83 src 171 base 191 total 605MB dvd1 has in addition to the 2=2E2GB in packages, lib32-dbg & base-dbg=2Etx= z for anither 244MB, that's it=2E All of KDE seems to be there=2E Unfortunately for gnome fanciers, due to src/release/pkg-stage=2Esh not ha= ving been informed of the name change from x11/gnome3 to x11/gnome, there's= no gnome among the dvd1 packages=2E Same for 13=2E1, but did anyone notic= e? Similarly, no drm-fbsd12=2E0-kmod which many people will need; I had no su= spend / resume till finding it amongst highly scattered docs=2E > Naming convention: "img" for USB images, "dvd" for DVD images, > "disc" for CD images - but probably since FreeBSD 10 or 11, > they no longer work with CDs=2E=2E=2E >=20 > Solution: Use USB and Internet=2E Optical media is no longer > in mainstream use, so its support will surely be dropped > altogether in the future=2E "Everyone has fast Internet!" Indeed=2E Many of us will remember when people took pride in helping peop= le in resource-poor situations into the FreeBSD community, whether short of= cash, information or access to bandwidth=2E > And now GET OFF MY LAWN!!! ;-) Careful, Elon can kill your sat feed=2E=2E=2E cheers, Ian