From nobody Sun Sep 08 08:52:51 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X1kJ66bZbz5WQWc for ; Sun, 08 Sep 2024 08:52:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf2718@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com (mail-wm1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X1kJ61Vysz4ZNx for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2024 08:52:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf2718@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=bKzgcvkO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of paulf2718@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::32d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paulf2718@gmail.com Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-42c7856ed66so24508585e9.3 for ; Sun, 08 Sep 2024 01:52:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725785573; x=1726390373; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :to:subject:from:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=W6Gz1S5V59HRzXpUYnyvOA5VuIxpteEoXj9faQs0c3I=; b=bKzgcvkO2nRmSzVMgCRQtuLr+1IeKzHwK5zSRPPq9cKPUv/RCOBJeD1dIc+XzvFwS2 0hyv267EFf0BNfIbI5sy5yWnrkRkluHk6M1wdaW564CQtp7+87AeRIuryox2t7otIdqp w8Wri3mh/hA98OD8JnS0+P9JRLFn6lcKSxl7nLyulyfbaO30dPb2NNpmOMeRYb5DevX1 XUrndlQJ9y/Oolx2Uaumx4gtnbR00OzowTkibog/OHNZD3AtriaL780TaLHFCj5+S5kM YKlUH1CfBKu/qT9+5TWkJmSGiNobu6YAQtjcDiTpvmB6w5Zp/A/EVaOifK1h+vY4y+hQ OayA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725785573; x=1726390373; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :to:subject:from:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=W6Gz1S5V59HRzXpUYnyvOA5VuIxpteEoXj9faQs0c3I=; b=oCWlr6iEnQ/fMxyMuVJyStlLZrjkuD48XtKHtZGG9dq85jSVOX6jG/7YN/RaxazRze Rg8XS4yRhds3Y8vWifLPQa5oRgAAfvqBU4NPtTtS+y2VGRfsvITuMzcrBlxtNygDocIS T4uoFO5tMLWF4H9qNN720BXdTSzpoHxnIn1Mlmm31n45mnQazFMmcdmDtMpSOtv6P4bg YCX7Wrh0wzlLaxazo/CeN0V1isFp/4Lj2qJ4734DDj9Tq8jfSMVBUOlbzvfIzhfUAQFL w/S5tFYtQuJmedWhvYNRhpwRv4JQ5WnWnuUjoriy+hhg957IzqoW4WVef2bNMYQ1HyMI XiRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy8NQoquFWUweU32jZZjMBLU00kiQ+OP5p2lyiMbqkTe/VYGwYf 5wSVSzsoKldohJTkkzq+8kBzbOTzFyrRaWDGHGAgzD7bJiwbZ9ReB0litA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFHn/93EckepsAtvAIzhthkjVg3hupN5qvYn7LIMEjMzsPzT7mcDI+FgMGnAk8zdmzYs0/A1w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3d93:b0:426:62c5:4742 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-42cad74649emr30222375e9.7.1725785572475; Sun, 08 Sep 2024 01:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPV6:2a01:cb15:801f:7500:1aa9:5ff:fe16:2efb? ([2a01:cb15:801f:7500:1aa9:5ff:fe16:2efb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-42caeb21d2fsm38459695e9.1.2024.09.08.01.52.51 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 08 Sep 2024 01:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9fea8629-87f7-46a1-ad33-06a82271cd79@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2024 08:52:51 +0000 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird From: Paul Floyd Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4634B979-4EB9-41AE-A9FE-14ACC9A4324A@iitbombay.org> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <4634B979-4EB9-41AE-A9FE-14ACC9A4324A@iitbombay.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.995]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::32d:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X1kJ61Vysz4ZNx On 05-09-24 20:21, Bakul Shah wrote: > On Sep 5, 2024, at 11:34 AM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: >> >> wow! this is undeniable argument even for someone who opposes the idea (like me) :-) > > Not really! > > Showing that a present system has issues does not imply in any > way that a proposed new system (or major change) will fix the > said problems! This is a common fallacy that people fall for. > Many people. Many many people :-) I don't think that anyone is saying that we should stop the world and rewrite it in Rust (or C++). Herb Sutter (convenor of the C++ standard committee wrote a good article on this recently: https://accu.org/journals/overload/32/180/sutter/ Notable points - only 4 of of the top 12 CWEs are due to memory safety. - switching existing code to MSLs would need a magic wand and still wouldn't make all problems go away. - make good use of other tools like analyzers and sanitizers A+ Paul