From nobody Sat Sep 07 01:41:12 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X0wmg34LKz5WSHk for ; Sat, 07 Sep 2024 01:41:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X0wmf5V56z4hS3; Sat, 7 Sep 2024 01:41:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sdaoden.eu; s=citron; t=1725673274; x=1726339940; h=date:author:from:to:cc:subject: message-id:in-reply-to:references:openpgp:blahblahblah:mime-version: content-type:content-transfer-encoding:author:from:subject:date:to:cc: resent-author:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender:resent-to:resent-cc: resent-reply-to:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version: content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:content-id: content-description:message-id:mail-followup-to:openpgp:blahblahblah; bh=+R80MCpQkFc4v9F46OsXFEqs7igL0GcBUtXCXYjevo0=; b=D1lUluj8sQ++zryYKUx4dr6dTNcxoM49xjuFdRxhqaroRkZ9+S+r+XJkdduC6kE2qI1dxuKh AOmTEmxTfJxjmO+adD8snYIySwJnyWeWmWGvy1JVf0qL+kr3OTAEHOhMPJ3Q8ZjMlgdFJzyudm M1DlEke8Kr98aI10dABgejHN2+6+txVmZuxVWg5ugClXYOjJOOF8E1TYUHuVQ2Gnwc0Lj6+taM aOOUNV4tJ5Msq7kxUHKRHUEet8sozUqboMfjcA9hWmeuOu//uTNHTwetR0U+EAowiEXB1wJalY nVFWzBjz0FNkoAghQtNt6U/6xMcmyY9DTLMdTVxAV57pNJ5Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sdaoden.eu; s=orange; t=1725673274; x=1726339940; h=date:author:from:to:cc:subject: message-id:in-reply-to:references:openpgp:blahblahblah:mime-version: content-type:content-transfer-encoding:author:from:subject:date:to:cc: resent-author:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender:resent-to:resent-cc: resent-reply-to:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version: content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:content-id: content-description:message-id:mail-followup-to:openpgp:blahblahblah; bh=+R80MCpQkFc4v9F46OsXFEqs7igL0GcBUtXCXYjevo0=; b=ISymiwoTfVhy44LSIXTwCjgA71znMAw+pgsu0eGUKcYDffDzDAeD5Ac83MoKUeOA+OP3sQtw YTJ2825BClefAA== Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2024 03:41:12 +0200 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Alan Somers Cc: ske-89@pkmab.se, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) Message-ID: <20240907014112.aSCgFO0F@steffen%sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: References: <202409052313.aa18097@berenice.pkmab.se> <20240905225129.UvYYMXDa@steffen%sdaoden.eu> <20240906210711.RUo97_0A@steffen%sdaoden.eu> User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.25-608-ge479530e8d OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15987, ipnet:217.144.128.0/20, country:DE] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X0wmf5V56z4hS3 Alan Somers wrote in : |On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 3:07=E2=80=AFPM Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: |> |>|>|/Kristoffer Eriksson |>|> --End of <202409052313.aa18097@berenice.pkmab.se> |>|> |>|> In support for that swedish hm virgin, yes, sweden is not a clean |>|> country for sure. |>| |>|Again, I don't know what you mean. But it looks like a personal |>|attack to me. Please try to keep your discourse on the public mailing |>|lists respectful. |> |> I cannot understand how you come to the conclusion the above was |> addressed to you; it referred for example to the attached picture. | |I apologize for my ambiguous grammar. I meant that the comment looks No need for that. (In general, to me, these so-called social guidelines appear strange to me in hindsight to what our society, not only the western, but that the most, of course, de-facto has done, and is actively doing.) |to me like a personal attack, not that it looks like a personal attack |against me. I should've said "it looks to me like a personal attack |against Kristoffer". But I still don't know what you meant by it, and |the attached picture did not help. Well maybe it in the end was aggression under the hood even. But that not consciously and definitely not anti-persona. If it was then likely because of the thread i should better not have anticipated in at all. Well, yes, a headline of "not preventable by a safer language" is indeed almost complete bullshit, and it maybe was the funky "get the quick meat" a la pacman in return that cause the reference to Greta Thunberg, aka to the reality under the carpet. Btw looking again at https://marc.info/?l=3Dfreebsd-hackers&m=3D172557576903954&w=3D2 of yours i am still totally unimpressed except maybe for "Circular references are almost impossible to create due to the lifetime borrow checker" given how deeply inter-referenced several complicated objects i have encountered by the occasional look into kernel systems (VFS was mentioned) are. I could now give exact counterparts, this thread kills the last midsummer day for me, tomorrow, i will not be in bed before 7 o'clock in the morning, what a mess. But *everybody* who reads this *knows* how to address the problems we are talking about. Ie unions, if used like that (?), can be solved by an outer struct with an ident field, and you can test that (sockaddr). More data, more (at least debug) test(macro)s. There could be a barray or bvec type with accessor (inline) functions. "Zero initializing a structure, but with the wrong size"; then use macros or inline functions like TYPENAME_init etc, which do that right, instead of memset(PTR, 0, SOME_SIZE_I_GOT_WRONG_BECAUSE_IT_IS_LATE) or something in a thousand different places. Where is the problem? That it is not done, that is the problem. Etc etc, you know all that. Why this other planet Rust. Ah na, like Pink Floyd's Animal Dog You gotta sleep on your toes, and when you're on the street You gotta be able to pick out the easy meat with your eyes closed And then moving in silently, down wind and out of sight Which brings me back to Miss Greta Thunberg again. --End of --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)