From nobody Fri Sep 06 20:48:38 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X0pH71YVZz5VxLF for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 20:48:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X0pH65GYGz40k7; Fri, 6 Sep 2024 20:48:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by kib.kiev.ua (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 486KmdWO013892; Fri, 6 Sep 2024 23:48:42 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 486KmdWO013892 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 486Kmceh013891; Fri, 6 Sep 2024 23:48:38 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2024 23:48:38 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Daniel Eischen Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Antranig Vartanian , Alan Somers , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) Message-ID: References: <202409060836.4868agnQ042462@critter.freebsd.dk> <102A9A46-D577-4651-8418-5E7946EA30A0@vigrid.com> List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <102A9A46-D577-4651-8418-5E7946EA30A0@vigrid.com> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on tom.home X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X0pH65GYGz40k7 On Fri, Sep 06, 2024 at 09:16:26AM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > On Sep 6, 2024, at 4:37 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > -------- > > Antranig Vartanian writes: > > > >> My point is: yes, we do need better languages. Yes, we do need memory-safety > >> and better tooling. But is Rust the answer? > > > > Rust is what all the cool kids run right now, which they will deny, > > claiming that Rust Is Simply Superior in replies to this email, > > despite this prediction. > > > > But as I said in an email a couple of days ago: We should not > > anoint some particular subset of programming languages or other. > > > > We should answer the question "What is FreeBSD?" in a way which > > does not contain a very short and controversial list of "approved > > programming languages". > > > > A pkg-based FreeBSD will allow the Rust people to write good code > > for FreeBSD in Rust, and C, C++, Go, Lua, OBERON or Ada can freely > > compete with them, without causing year-long slug-fests on the > > mailing lists. > > > > And if the INTERCAL people want to write FreeBSD kernel code in > > INTERCAL, they get to maintain whatever it takes for their > > compiler to grok the interfaces to the kernel, likewise for > > any other language. > > > > Poul-Henning > > > > > > PS: I'm disappointed you did not mention Ada with SPARK. > > +1 > > And back in the 80s, Ada was supposed to be the answer for safe coding language. Isn't SPARK license non-FOSS and requires payments?