From nobody Thu Sep 05 19:45:29 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X08wY1kWJz5TkXC for ; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 19:45:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X08wX3BCWz4XcT; Thu, 5 Sep 2024 19:45:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sdaoden.eu; s=citron; t=1725565530; x=1726232196; h=date:author:from:to:cc:subject: message-id:in-reply-to:references:openpgp:blahblahblah:author:from: subject:date:to:cc:resent-author:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-reply-to:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: content-disposition:content-id:content-description:message-id: mail-followup-to:openpgp:blahblahblah; bh=w+ee1NbvgohouKkZRfMnHZRg0gXMB4q6tT2V9zQcrUg=; b=i2sJp4wmleol/zkRLsQA5HvZ1bxtN1fj1Kfm/85bNcpjkPtl/FLxXDelkOuNCscbVwmgP1XR MuYSs1yxXzYOfpKcToRTkUjjBon52mLEouKrbCaa2YElFgpPgc+ZubK4ju0oagTCwAoB2IgJVL WymlIP8Dh3T68D0OrW2mGYQtwU8HiVGhhEvHn9wWQHXj8cJpR4+sVaLYvNwB3tItXT1a8SV/o+ 0NizjSBBd7vzJ2+E+Ti4u0XHjLa4rtgHAmrt4oYbW2eYPiq/iu4HX1fMO5LF69ZhLsnns616XC GwG6hFyGBTNC3FBnaRHkQscNcKhIV08eEb1az1KM6DjwshSw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sdaoden.eu; s=orange; t=1725565530; x=1726232196; h=date:author:from:to:cc:subject: message-id:in-reply-to:references:openpgp:blahblahblah:author:from: subject:date:to:cc:resent-author:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-reply-to:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: content-disposition:content-id:content-description:message-id: mail-followup-to:openpgp:blahblahblah; bh=w+ee1NbvgohouKkZRfMnHZRg0gXMB4q6tT2V9zQcrUg=; b=VPbxKsc5Z86zkx3WYbESEalmCM4Yq3wlDnNOvHPWzo7f9YlrB6QjCIWXplbtGdqiuctvypIp Pk2V8y0UWr4YDA== Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 21:45:29 +0200 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Alan Somers Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) Message-ID: <20240905194529.3szOViVM@steffen%sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.25-608-ge479530e8d OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15987, ipnet:217.144.128.0/20, country:DE] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X08wX3BCWz4XcT List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Alan Somers wrote in : |By now I expect that most of you have seen the long list of new |security advisories that just came out. Strikingly, all were the |result of memory handling errors. And none of them wouldn't have |happened if their respective programs had been written in a |memory-safe language. | |In fact, of all the C bug fixes that I've been involved with (as |either author or reviewer) since May, about three quarters could've |been avoided just by using a better language. | |The real takeaway here is that C is no longer sufficient for writing |high quality code in the 2020s. Everyone needs to adapt their tools. I *totally* speak against this. Quite the opposite i claim that C was safe already fifty years ago, it is just that the occasional one does not realize it. *Nothing* prevents you from using a string object instead of direct memory accesses, a vector object instead of arrays managed via realloc(), and all that. *Nothing*. If *you* do not do that that is your fault and you are a bad programmer; moreover, you should not be allowed to vote in a democratic environment (surely you do not read all the magazines and newspapers, and watch or hear to policital emissions, in order to build yourself a *real* opinion), be enabled to drive a car, and what else not. Ie, please live in a managed environment if you want to. Let me fight for a relatively free language which allows, but does not mandate. I agree that method-on-object is much nicer than pointer-on-function, ie a C++ "str.trim().squeeze().c_str()" is "better" than whatever you do in C. I have no voice anyway and no longer post on this bikeshed midsummer hole stuff. Here are subjects dying, that moves me enough. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)