From nobody Wed Jun 12 18:14:08 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Vztwb2cjdz5NBSR for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:14:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mureninc@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-f175.google.com (mail-yw1-f175.google.com [209.85.128.175]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Vztwb0zq3z4yp1; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:14:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mureninc@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yw1-f175.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-627efad69b4so1441567b3.3; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 11:14:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718216062; x=1718820862; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6q4hikVgZLIoagGU+MEQr3db4PWIsjFte6Uyuf2NJME=; b=vPs1cb/9EJ3gjyRQfDVqKztmZmiSzV8F0LW8LlsnKb5YJc1vrhjR9e2ivz5saKSmk1 K7DhhIts7AsPI7DM9+Eop+svc7DcfBmpgkLlaTWHfFxX4MWd+WMbzv/I0V9TF4Qh7u24 aEfJJMLeDpQduOe6PoNS5Wq4mDkUsDCE7kUgPSMe4pcA69YH8QbughCOmomZbKtLNG16 VLGGJUN1gKCYxvkonTS4TVcUL4fkyxO0g6rYT1UndQG0Hv/Hk+12RGpZcg7jD4xNeWMR vKlVREEudfwD/OxUh3Ut8Iswj5xOxdga/lSZYdrydCyVIyNL+igb7Pdpa62UZTOQT1zL sTFA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUdToBsq2kpWkfnd16qvmp9sF4EMY8wMIm9ejV9oGLC9BTNK1Tc5TtiV+6Gky89801YAkmFiEppr9ih4JXYXOqUvFk= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxCKaj4eT22qjxu5Xjo95vCyhiAz3U6MYN5+db2JxpscB15GTM+ PAhk+/bniCGuKw+qEzFuPsVNIrzYzEzOdYda49E9fMd9dhuBFO2uc17cXuCuEEbvkeH8UR6LwHP +pafglL3hIvGRYsSsxZBSsoF3BqZafQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE6P65nnZXwh/Eox2vuAoCbXLLXEFZS9Gonx3fpU71mZ6uWLvGygwlTbEmozJex1RCGwPE9EjrmoTAOCHz9NV8= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:e8c5:0:b0:630:2749:2f4d with SMTP id 00721157ae682-63027493023mr18260097b3.36.1718216062098; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 11:14:22 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Constantine A. Murenin" Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2024 13:14:08 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Removing "CMOS clock set to UTC" question To: Ed Maste Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Constantine Murenin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Vztwb0zq3z4yp1 On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 11:23, Ed Maste wrote: > > Our installer asks (via tzsetup): > > > Is this machine's CMOS clock set to UTC? If it is set to local time, > > or you don't know, please choose NO here! > > I've heard many reports of new users being confused by this question > when installing FreeBSD for the first time. I don't think it provides > much value; it is a minor convenience for dual-booting with Windows > but imposes a cost on everyone installing FreeBSD. It is trivial to > configure the system to use local time in the system's real-time clock > by creating /etc/wall_cmos_clock. Other operating systems do not ask, > they just default to local time (Windows) or UTC (everyone else). > > I've proposed removing the question from bsdinstall in > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D45569. Perhaps the confusion arises from the implied default being "NO" instead of a "YES"? In a way, the proposed patch actually both changes the default and removes the question. Which may end up being more confusing unless expressly advertised as such. If the intention is to simply change the implied default, maybe that's exactly what should be done instead? E.g., move the "don't know" category into a "YES" suggestion. C.