Re: The Case for Rust (in the base system)

On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 4:49 PM Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp>
wrote:

> On Mon, 5 Aug 2024 16:33:24 -0600
> Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2024, 4:29 PM Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 5 Aug 2024 15:32:17 -0600
> > > Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 3:27 PM Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > --------
> > > > > Steffen Nurpmeso writes:
> > > > > > Cy Schubert wrote in
> > > > > >  <704D020F-78A4-4926-AE3C-41F7FD619A89@cschubert.com>:
> > > > > >  |On July 31, 2024 10:49:52 AM PDT, Bakul Shah <
> bakul@iitbombay.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >  |>All this talk won't lead to anything much so a suggestion to
> > > > > >  ..
> > > > > >  |Sorry for being late to the party. Last day of vacation;
> picking
> > > up \
> > > > > >  |phone reading this thread.
> > > > > >  |
> > > > > >  |Like much in this business (been doing this stuff for about 50
> > > years \
> > > > > >  |now) there is a cohort unwilling to roll up their sleeves and
> put
> > > some
> > > > > \
> > > > > >  |skin in the game, expecting others already with long todo
> lists to
> > > \
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Most user space tools could be written in lua.
> > > > >
> > > > > That /exact/ same argument was made for Perl :-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lua's been in the base since I imported it for the boot loader,
> though...
> > > >
> > > > Warner
> > >
> > > And Forth was introduced for loader prior to lua and still not
> > > deleted. :-)
> > > I think it would be removed sometime in the future once no one
> > > complains about loader.lua.
> > >
> >
> > The only remaining legitimate complaint I've heard against lua loader is
> > its size in BIOS land. It's about 50ish k too big still there when
> bearssl
> > and veriexec are on given lua's stack usage.
> >
> > But we never wrote other system utils in forth (bearssl parsing
> > notwithstanding) nor had a critical mass of people wanting to do that.
>
> Exactly. I once thought why? But never seen (at least by default)
> something written in Forth for base, other than loader.
>

4th is too hard to program in and doesn't lend iitselfwell to string
processing.


> Maybe it would be when firmwares shipped for first hand users stop
> shipping CSM that Forth is removed from base, ealiest.
>

Yea. Too many VMs want a CSM interface, so we'll be stuck with it
for some time to come :(.

Warner


> >
> > Warner
> >
> > --
> > > Tomoaki AOKI    <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp>
> > >
>
>
> --
> Tomoaki AOKI    <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp>
>