From nobody Fri Nov 26 16:13:50 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B695118C24A5 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 16:13:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) Received: from mx.blih.net (mail.blih.net [212.83.155.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx.blih.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4J10DK2bZSz3rwX for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 16:13:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bidouilliste.com; s=mx; t=1637943231; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ddDQnY6VmE0ldlfFuCkt6Pcb43sjKJgpJY/unOsxLOA=; b=Xje9/HD6dpvDlzbY6v5DWORs8R700HwkTJwVV9Jt1CxCdpsvvliA4+LEKiIqz63H69tjNF xAjfTRzKWQ3mBTJ/qWPMEcXSJs3qYVBdaOzyrA0QhheIk3kjvaEdZ13ZXtT3qQdgX5W0p9 9lhMhGR0bJ93vd+RvG0ZMGkPIqqaybo= Received: from skull.home.blih.net (lfbn-idf2-1-1163-183.w90-92.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.92.222.183]) by mx.blih.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 3689c108 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 26 Nov 2021 16:13:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 17:13:50 +0100 From: Emmanuel Vadot To: Eugene Grosbein Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reasons for keeping sc(4) and libvgl ? Message-Id: <20211126171350.bf976c035095e1d8ac5e43fa@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <5b9baa6a-66ee-549d-a3e9-f6ea4e6e5016@grosbein.net> References: <20211126160454.3eb827365a02103169ab9adc@bidouilliste.com> <5b9baa6a-66ee-549d-a3e9-f6ea4e6e5016@grosbein.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.0) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4J10DK2bZSz3rwX X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 22:59:49 +0700 Eugene Grosbein wrote: > 26.11.2021 22:04, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > > > For libvgl it probably made sense back in the 90s but does it now ?? > > I enjoyed games/digger-vgl for a while in VGA console :-) > > > Based on my small list I don't see any good reason to keep sc(4) but > > maybe I've missed something bigger so please let me know. > > > > P.S.: I'm really not interested by people saying stuff like > > "I've always used sc(4), it works for me don't touch it" > > without some technical argument. > > sc(4) is still better quality for BIOS-based systems or EFI-based with CSM legacy mode working. Why ? > sc(4) is better to such an extent FreeBSD's unusable with vt(4) for some fresh systems being sold > but boots and works fine with sc(4). An example with many people complaining: > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=230172 Better as in it doesn't respect the specs ? You said yourself in this PR that we should blame the manufacturer. Now if you want to work on making hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga better in loader based on the smbios info and some quirk table please go ahead. But don't say that sc(4) is better because it works on buggy hardware as it ignores some stuff. > I'd like more FreeBSD developers respect POLA these days > and take responds like "I've always used sc(4), it works for me don't touch it" seriously. > > Please, don't touch what works and works good. > Why POLA ? I'm asking for reasons to keep sc(4), how the hell is that POLA to ask some questions ? -- Emmanuel Vadot