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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 93a32fb95fb4fa4e5e23b9071e1bc1a1; Fri, 31 Jan 2025 15:50:02 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Filesystems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-fs List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.300.87.4.3\)) Subject: Re: exfat driver as a gsoc project: mentors wanted From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 07:49:51 -0800 Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <86B4B4D0-2B25-4632-B9BE-AE65633AE165.ref@yahoo.com> <86B4B4D0-2B25-4632-B9BE-AE65633AE165@yahoo.com> To: Robert Clausecker X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.300.87.4.3) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.50 / 15.00]; RBL_SENDERSCORE_REPUT_9(-1.00)[98.137.69.147:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-fs@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.69.147:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.69.147:from] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Yl0hY6TGBz3g4c On Jan 20, 2025, at 11:29, Robert Clausecker wrote: > Hi Mark, >=20 > Am Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:06:39AM -0800 schrieb Mark Millard: >> Robert Clausecker wrote on >> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2025 17:17:40 UTC : >>=20 >>> With ExFAT being a common file system on external storage devices >>> and the patent situation being less bad than a few years ago, >>=20 >> Did I miss a status change? I do know that: >>=20 >> https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090164440?oq=3DUS2009164440 >>=20 >> reports: 2027-03-09 Adjusted expiration >>=20 >> But, other than that: >>=20 >> https://opensource.microsoft.com/blog/2019/08/28/exfat-linux-kernel/ >>=20 >> reported: >>=20 >> QUOTE >> We also support the eventual inclusion of a Linux kernel with exFAT = support in a future revision of the Open Invention Network=E2=80=99s = Linux System Definition, where, once accepted, the code will benefit = from the defensive patent commitments of OIN=E2=80=99s 3040+ members and = licensees. >> END QUOTE >>=20 >> Quoting https://openinventionnetwork.com/# : >>=20 >> QUOTE >> OIN is the largest patent non-aggression community in history. = Together, we support freedom of action in Linux as a key element of Open = Source & help members reduce patent risks. >> END QUOTE >>=20 >> So, apparently: Very specific to Linux as a context. >>=20 >> To my knowledge FreeBSD is not and can not be a member of the >> Open Invention Network in order to get FreeBSD itself covered. >=20 > No, you did not miss anything. However, if Microsoft has given the > patent to an open source patent pool, it seems likely that we can > join said pool. >=20 >> I'm less sure relative to the means of running Linux code in >> a booted FreeBSD. May be a OIN membership could cover that >> for exFAT and more? (No clue.) >=20 > Yes, exactly that's what we should evaluate. >=20 >>> it >>> seems interesting to have a native ExFAT driver. >>>=20 >>> The driver could be maintained out-of-tree and hosted in Europe >>> (where the software patents are not enforceable) until we can >>> merge it. >>=20 >> May be the above is an implicit reference to the "2027-03-09 >> Adjusted expiration"? >=20 > No, though 2027 is only two years away, so if we cannot join the OIN, > we only have to keep the driver out-of-tree for that long worst case. David Chisnall has provided more detailed notes about the patents = involved: = https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers/2025-January/004264.htm= l Turns out there are some optimization-related patents that expire later = than the ones for the initial exFAT implementation. So David wrote at the end = of his note: QUOTE Next year, I believe, all patents on the original version of exFAT will = have expired, which makes it possible to implement an exFAT driver that = is not patent encumbered, though without many of the performance = improvements. END QUOTE > As for =E2=80=9Chosted in Europe:=E2=80=9D Europe does not have = software patents, > so we can basically ignore the ExFAT patents if development is done > in Europe independently of any US entity. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com