From nobody Sun Dec 10 14:45:37 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Sp73G235cz53wGy for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:45:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from colo1.denninger.net (colo1.denninger.net [104.236.120.189]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Sp73F2J2jz3FgX for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of karl@denninger.net designates 104.236.120.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=karl@denninger.net; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=denninger.net Received: from denninger.net (096-033-195-197.res.spectrum.com [96.33.195.197]) by colo1.denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8803F2110C7 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:45:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.10.25] (D15.Denninger.Net [192.168.10.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6DDD6110FE for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:45:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:45:37 -0500 List-Id: Filesystems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-fs List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: periodic trim for ufs2 ssds Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org References: From: Karl Denninger In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms010008030509090501050502" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.89 / 15.00]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[denninger.net,none]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-fs@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:104.236.64.0/18, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~,4:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[karl]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-fs@freebsd.org]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Sp73F2J2jz3FgX X-Spamd-Bar: ----- This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010008030509090501050502 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------knCseFNAj8SABWlwvAxwqXlZ" --------------knCseFNAj8SABWlwvAxwqXlZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 12/10/2023 08:49, void wrote: > On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 06:19:51PM -0800, Mark Millard wrote: > >> One can sometimes use: >> >> # gstat -spod >> >> for monitoring alternatives and get an idea if on-the-fly >> trim is rate limiting activity compared to not having it >> enabled. > > thanks. > Consumer-grade ssds seem to have sometimes a catastrophic mode of > failure where the ssd cannot even be read, by anything. > I hope that trim might, in the long run, help with delaying that. > From what I've read so far, trim is considered non-harmful. > > On systems with enterprise-grade ssds in a zpool, I have > (manual, zpool) trim running as a cron job a few minutes before other > automatic jobs with heavy I/O. The trim job takes about 3 minutes to run. > The SSDs are pci not m.2. Hopefully this extends their life to the > maximum > possible extent (together with weekly zpool scrub) > Most-common reason for that ("death") in consumer drives is unsolicited power failures that result in the internal mapping table getting smashed.  There's not much the drive can do about that -- so buy ones that don't have that sort of issue (Micron makes some pretty good ones at reasonable prices.) I'm using a decent number of the Micron 5400 series units at present and have yet to see any indication of trouble on them, nor any abnormal reported wear.  In fact a couple of them in a mirror on a fairly busy server where they're serving boot/swap/postfix mail spool, compile and similar -- they are still showing, after a full year's use, 100% of wear available. -- Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------knCseFNAj8SABWlwvAxwqXlZ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 12/10/2023 08:49, void wrote:
On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 06:19:51PM -0800, Mark Millard wrote:

One can sometimes use:

# gstat -spod

for monitoring alternatives and get an idea if on-the-fly
trim is rate limiting activity compared to not having it
enabled.

thanks.
Consumer-grade ssds seem to have sometimes a catastrophic mode of failure where the ssd cannot even be read, by anything.
I hope that trim might, in the long run, help with delaying that.
From what I've read so far, trim is considered non-harmful.

On systems with enterprise-grade ssds in a zpool, I have
(manual, zpool) trim running as a cron job a few minutes before other automatic jobs with heavy I/O. The trim job takes about 3 minutes to run.
The SSDs are pci not m.2. Hopefully this extends their life to the maximum
possible extent (together with weekly zpool scrub)

Most-common reason for that ("death") in consumer drives is unsolicited power failures that result in the internal mapping table getting smashed.  There's not much the drive can do about that -- so buy ones that don't have that sort of issue (Micron makes some pretty good ones at reasonable prices.)

I'm using a decent number of the Micron 5400 series units at present and have yet to see any indication of trouble on them, nor any abnormal reported wear.  In fact a couple of them in a mirror on a fairly busy server where they're serving boot/swap/postfix mail spool, compile and similar -- they are still showing, after a full year's use, 100% of wear available.

--
Karl Denninger
karl@denninger.net
The Market Ticker
[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]
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