From nobody Mon Sep 04 19:22:18 2023 X-Original-To: doc@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Rfdn65YFDz4sGpw for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:22:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mxrelay.nyi.freebsd.org (mxrelay.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mxrelay.nyi.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Rfdn61DLRz4JJK for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:22:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1693855338; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=LIQDI8blOdz1OKPCcVGe74bVcH2Ork1BIBusHAA0OkXzmSkCdzvhYcTWKcAMommzpa6EPI oFIZ/ibRhoDwzPzfLHz9WE/h5N6E2ClG8MmRGHoHTp5FVCkvmMNzHVZuR9/Xj9KG5WV/Fu DBOqrLurqF65/J9+DwV1cGEdNRQ0JCyGUjEGe1XwsYiXQAahckGFe8ItYHBbKLq/CfU0ao wAnMufjaRbcrJoZDARj708U77aYVvOswStG0qUtfryLvjw82LJAhY7w+5YOnT+bFmYK+BS RtNKPtbSMbG10LqHAlm5ieYcCB7wtjDAO9w7Nd9IfI4OIUjCSGhgpgHDTaN8xQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1693855338; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=hI1oKoCod7ZSYR8uQVBvTKo1/wGNHtd/e50T3PyaD2A=; b=KdWgfFQSRfRXa58goI8XsweAVbOO9vBGcXD+AcAM3bhuLrv6K4kWEkVvtIfMiPcVBQGAyE 82u380QjXZODTNp+H6LjSwBQgA6XaJR9058pywmNeuvT95ypLSXcVfnbnUAYgXBEaHkoxN SLgUKRKk2dS1Q5hea7kAo9z2b1bizGFzkZPmvCRyOB5hBFD3vzsuPx36/I8gXWErBK1iKx +fG9n51X11WPhfkH1AnPRRKiQou05tVe6GjL8tf0sIrtXDMWNzxwzuScUq/GAsw0vNclOe ZbFqZM1ItP3LyKD3IEi9xl3um0/ikFTAzp/pCG9U5u3xC8GdilxIS/h2qd/H8g== Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:1d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mxrelay.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Rfdn60KdZz1HVJ for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:22:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.5]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 384JMHtH077311 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:22:17 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 384JMHT2077310 for doc@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:22:17 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: kenobi.freebsd.org: www set sender to bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org using -f From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 273245] textproc/groff: groff_mdoc(7): output from 'man 7 groff_mdoc' is badly broken Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2023 19:22:18 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Ports & Packages X-Bugzilla-Component: Individual Port(s) X-Bugzilla-Version: Latest X-Bugzilla-Keywords: X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Many People X-Bugzilla-Who: g.branden.robinson@gmail.com X-Bugzilla-Status: Open X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: bapt@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: maintainer-feedback? X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated List-Id: Documentation project List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-doc List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D273245 --- Comment #5 from G. Branden Robinson --- (In reply to Wolfram Schneider from comment #4) Hi Wolfram, > Are you aware that this tiny change (-man -> -mandoc) will break some of = our > core FreeBSD tools, and a lot of third-party tools which we use in the ba= se > system? Not to mention some FreeBSD ports which may fail as well. I anticipated some impact, but was mostly concerned with users of "man" programs. Between _mandoc_(1), which does its own man page rendering, and man-db _man_(1), which has invoked _groff_ with the `-mandoc` flag for 22 years, the impact on end users seemed relatively low. At the time I mooted= (a form of) this idea to the _groff_ mailing list almost 3 years ago (item D, https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2020-10/msg00012.html ) it drew no objections in a discussion that included _groff_'s current and former maintainers, together then representing 21 years of pedigree with the proje= ct, and the _mandoc_ current and present maintainer, Ingo Schwarze. I'm aware of another (non-proprietary Unix) _man_ implementation, for which= I have no better name than "Brouwer/Lucifredi man". It has been moribund for several years, and has been replaced by man-db man where it was once popula= r, on RPM-based Linux distributions. I don't know that it was ever ported to *BSD, but it may have been. I also don't know if it used "-mandoc" or "-ma= n".=20 But it's arguably an irrelevant implementation; it had been stale long enou= gh by 2010 that Fedora 14 discarded it for man-db man despite Lucifredi man's = home field advantage, if you will.=20 I did not immediately act on the idea back in October 2020. I raised it ag= ain in June 2021 (item 3, https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2021-06/msg00070.html ), explicitly flagging it as "disruptive". It drew no objection, but support from Ingo Schwarze as well as from Doug McIlroy, with whom some are familiar as Thomp= son & Ritchie's manager at Bell Labs, and author of the original man(7) macro package that shipped in Seventh Edition Unix (1979). > This will affect all FreeBSD releases/branches (12/13/14/15) that we supp= ort. > A possible workaround is to downgrade the groff port to 1.22.4 locally. I concede that that is an option. You may want to peruse a list of bugs resolved in the groff 1.23.0 release as part of your consideration process.= =20 Here is one sorted by severity. I apologize in advance for the gargantuan = URL; it is an inelegant aspect of the GNU Savane ticket tracker. https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=3Dgroff&func=3Dbrowse&set=3Dcustom&mso= rt=3D0&bug_id[]=3D&summary[]=3D&submitted_by[]=3D0&resolution_id[]=3D1&assi= gned_to[]=3D0&bug_group_id[]=3D0&status_id[]=3D3&severity[]=3D0&category_id= []=3D0&plan_release_id[]=3D103&advsrch=3D0&msort=3D0&chunksz=3D50&spamscore= =3D5&report_id=3D225&sumORdet=3D&morder=3Dbug_id%3C&order=3Dseverity#results > Checking our repos I see that we need to change ~100 files: > > for i in freebsd-{src,ports,doc};do (cd $i && printf "$i "; git grep 'rof= f.* -man[^d]' |wc -l );done > freebsd-src 35 > freebsd-ports 51 > freebsd-doc 9 It would likely be educational for me to retrieve these (3?) repositories a= nd examine these results in detail. My expectation is that build scripts/Makefiles are calling "groff -man" to generate "cat pages". If tha= t is the case, then the use of "groff -man" as opposed to "groff -mandoc" is, I would guess, a bit of sloppiness unfortunately coddled by groff for many ye= ars. Using "-mandoc" to format man pages when one is uncertain of or indifferen= t to the macro package used for their composition has a long, honorable tradition dating back to 4.3BSD-Reno (1990).=20 https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=3D4.3BSD-Reno/share/tmac/tmac= .andoc > Thinking about the issue - maybe we should just patch the FreeBSD port of > groff and revert this change. It hurts a lot of our users. If so, there are several commits you will want to revert. At the time this change was made, they were recorded in a Savannah ticket.=20 https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?60789 If part of your _groff_ port build involves running its automated test suite with "make check", then I predict that you will also need to update some te= st scripts for the man package that have been written and committed since then. Please consider me a resource for any questions you have. Regards, Branden --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.=