From nobody Fri Feb 14 07:49:06 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-desktop@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YvPMB4Sb1z5nxpm for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2025 07:49:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paaguti@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com (mail-wm1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YvPMB2mMrz43f2 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2025 07:49:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paaguti@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-4396a24118dso1348125e9.0 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2025 23:49:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1739519348; x=1740124148; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=BYgCGJAvdJCvxcLyNW2TeltqixSez2OIzP89obtCIRE=; b=lfDLZG87WLz7WD9J1zFyWjyKGzImgSs78GkasKSCvMJ741Kj6SOy1D9MQIa/42phvM pl0SVucZ3xqQf6NRbc1rQZ2fA5b8XBYY4MJAcYo6KZu/55B1vCxYEX6SuQH/sPldngX3 +Qt49+Z8N7Ew0Szlysh9nYvM9hGqKVxbcs8b+q026oVhiI7ybIQhIBn8AD64VlehT7hf KSm7MCUyrz4qS4igkdprfwMRFzVZHkpKHGBid4WB26kboVM5N13YPvJmV1GN2CuP+/Ve IOhoQP4bPMma+s4vUR583Qx5oOm5zQ+shMTRz+BbjoUBoCq2HzHBbJ3EH+OVjo8RjYNr viiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1739519348; x=1740124148; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=BYgCGJAvdJCvxcLyNW2TeltqixSez2OIzP89obtCIRE=; b=PXUXx36dKEORb2Dmbb63TbiwYP4gETJSCr3BKr/LFSFvuJCQG/YvggAeCW1q7MND+U Qs3u4GEmuQYIgX48tiH99PGZ82QWBR2G+MXUUmhrGLQXocZ9a6vYE4eIMyT7AMJq/tz7 eFuwEE50D8y+JBOnxb0NozxufHRd5XVPPGFQgmTCz/UmHsoOePgxceOlaepDkSLk4eMh 7hZsEQ5GUFKjBMmotEuOlA0B2d3r7CFIbHFo3jKvaX4GUiDW7TyIigpomRx4uy94+sCG gufYBQLMl1z9p2/ZU9wm8RY4f0VGv8b2EWa0eRgNktknbYUtVVlVg8uB//hNPnZEqLkX gemw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUL2+8VLXKrsbdrEjzYQNmRupbf3k/uUUR0kGDHDK+za0ebhl7Qm9cqWN7XWt/Y+zx2TfgLNe0HXkKWRthLEHU=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxD8JuXMbO4sUyZj/zD2RnaWufw2NvTkdlI8nPolF+ZIMPNPUGe wbvzVtvjB7pFxPpTtVI4t/ZnW4FUXJIWLtr8AIRWfd0/EeNFJrXl2NyXlQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuQHAo8257fLHPuOgkFzmZcfZGUfwYgc1Nzi9GI38CvDeIXWZiR1ZfHevIxD/k ILlwvx8hftOOi68/dCNOOkonkBBL7IGGCgehmTlZ4iwK4BTUlyN2MKqso+BYCmu/rGHEe1K6BcW gbkqkeF7jQ1fu2rZIWckioou99Xq6hhkr/wmk8flQY6tfATNHpCkxdBPfl3A3HX41ZAS2zStA9Q nkzbofz8xz8GCV5gy3IfXaHzVRJ6qFGb/XAmwFzBBcB/ztg0ZA3Xba1RnHvZ8ZYRjnrW/rkHO+b /nu9OqVNpgLMTPuRqXxTDMHFKJYq X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHWguvGsOk+MIn11wC2Au9S2amWjNBPXGEPOAQqxH0vvNqTz5gSJz35BY8+TyuqGVZ8upzazA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4f41:b0:439:30bd:7df9 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-439581665a3mr110003495e9.9.1739519347765; Thu, 13 Feb 2025 23:49:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([163.117.64.23]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4395a1aa7d2sm69111855e9.25.2025.02.13.23.49.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Feb 2025 23:49:07 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Using and improving FreeBSD on the desktop List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-desktop List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-desktop@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.10\)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Foundation Laptop Support target hardware and desktop environments From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez In-Reply-To: <8f8d6ff6677ddf569e81ac103acf22a1d0e7ec64.camel@solutionroute.ca> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2025 08:49:06 +0100 Cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-desktop@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <8f8d6ff6677ddf569e81ac103acf22a1d0e7ec64.camel@solutionroute.ca> To: Mike Watkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.10) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YvPMB2mMrz43f2 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] Comments inline=E2=80=A6 > El 13 feb 2025, a las 19:01, Mike Watkins = escribi=C3=B3: >=20 >> For the desktop environment we'll start with KDE, as it is popular >> and has an active development team. >> = https://github.com/FreeBSDFoundation/proj-laptop/blob/main/supported/deskt= op-environment.md >=20 > While that makes perfect sense from a FreeBSD-centric viewpoint, KDE > isn't the most popular desktop environment in the *nix world, GNOME = is, > by far. GNOME has always been the most popular desktop environment on > *nix desktops. >=20 > = https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=3Dgnome-panel%2Cgnome-shel= l%2Ckde-runtime%2Cxfce4-panel%2Clxpanel%2Ckde-plasma-desktop&show_installe= d=3Don&want_legend=3Don&from_date=3D2000-01-01&to_date=3D&hlght_date=3D&da= te_fmt=3D%25Y-%25m&beenhere=3D1 >=20 > Some will argue that GNOME is too systemd-centric to be a good fit for > FreeBSD; I'd argue that I've used it on systemd-free Linux > distributions for years, and also suggest that active support on non- > systemd Linux platforms, and non-Linux platforms, can only help to > avoid systemd lock-in from becoming a future reality. I humbly consider myself desktop-agnostic, switching from KDE to GNOME, = MATE, etc. depending on the environment I=E2=80=99m currently working = on. I too have a non-system platform with GNOME running nicely on it and = the only thing that makes KDE attractive to me is that it supports my = cameras=E2=80=99 raw formats automagically.=20 > Current GNOME 47 ships on a variety of non-systemd Linux distributions > including Alpine and Chimera Linux; on Void Linux (also non-systemd) > they tend to skip one GNOME release a year. > I'm not selling GNOME for my own wants; I prefer and use River on > FreeBSD and Linux. I do believe letting GNOME languish in ports is > problematic. Perhaps a scoping effort for what it would take to bring > GNOME up to date could at least be considered at some point by this > project. 1+ >> We're targeting Wayland as it's important for long-term viability, >> although in the short term KDE on X11 is the usable approach. >=20 > I applaud targetting Wayland.=20 1+ as long as it gets the same level of simplicity as Xorg when = installing it.