From nobody Thu Jan 23 01:50:02 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YdkR168ptz5lQ7n for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2025 01:50:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YdkR15Rwgz3xH2; Thu, 23 Jan 2025 01:50:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1737597005; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=OcTc5ZlfCj4P7p9n3VituCqtLvApDSZOFC4e/Pu4EPI=; b=UJcL5Io9R9HhF1Zkyb2O3uPU2uxD3IHXfZNctbC2xs3R7PrKi15JIs0sJY2tBkXzQh0EEp 9w+n/GSwKcB28P6PlxNY+r1tyvj6X52NPrn5aEA062t4vB9xkkzIvkRmhM1IQ5+QoP1AuQ n6oXYcm+aXUIpVbT0ax7So971yrG1o6KdTzCs5Ka0UcVeGr4MST5OemPL7uJKo6qVT9gBb zRJ6uM2XGd6OMSzT17gcHJPKos0IRaHmkrNMG93VJOvbxiOnbvKUItzpbrdDNuR8AOdtR2 3VgDl9PPM781Q5jeT8VxdR1eat/ltdCU3dzP2y5Gl//5EhgD5ECjsqSCX8XmbA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1737597005; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=OcTc5ZlfCj4P7p9n3VituCqtLvApDSZOFC4e/Pu4EPI=; b=A30ZZApV+1sJ7QVG9yPG9Elt76kPvhUhjHk8Q23Rc/G+A3Oo15k9YPj9+kd/CBLVoiGYHZ fP5DZq828QyGDDGxsq6Hm0dXDSTzAOygsB4VRITdmqVl4PHLNPFpuH5AZylvUH9MOw9wt7 BHKT6D8041HyuwB2qYgZ1QhNW03GHL4IKQ1h9lH5mhbtDhQUbc1A9X7OiFt+v0LxfhtBaq 6h6UhjDQ8ObT4Nk6w3WaF8j31N8T1jgLJiGMWDASS5sVSVnxgXzUZ3In5IZY0sea/5R28f 8o8VJKdKVxCxHINFpraTEjXf/bvGZI3o9D7JPKzZod2UKkTMf6vcihHH3wNcbA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1737597005; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=fEmsHpvM6DjbD+oPx0svC6dJ5lsqtdD1E6sKKIecfKH/3iNoRpDyuSCRXXkSVFAb9AobV7 XQpo8qLrcRVo07pToBR72Li4ffySQyf8LI3DWsFn8IPSyyUT0e9HTEIa4VbW+HD2w4JfPC +b0qDCkI0YiBw6/NwAgfAjuTGNNYBenbMuCdZ77u7Kaiql7unX9c/a7bSBbglAFakJ/z/M w5En+TMW/m+vFP4NtkhWhyTDtzb2FgHDPrXJmQdipZdif1JC0oRAngZriWemZDTXBJe0Z7 cxeNGSHGgi7cq0kRXStf1iqyIKbdjZ6SmJ57frTDKf9upZBRjNBnmuOQ/nWXUQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from cell.glebi.us (glebi.us [162.251.186.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: glebius) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4YdkR10xDWz1GSG; Thu, 23 Jan 2025 01:50:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 17:50:02 -0800 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: Florian Walpen Cc: bob prohaska , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Warner Losh Subject: Re: /usr/src and /usr/ports not git directories ? Message-ID: References: <2019698.n1Ql7ez4OO@x230> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2019698.n1Ql7ez4OO@x230> Florian, On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 01:03:14AM +0100, Florian Walpen wrote: F> > I have already once tried this statement at a smaller audience - a F> > Russian-speaking telegram channel. One meaningful feedback I got F> > is that people may occasionally build stuff from ports and also F> > some ports (e.g. drm-kmod, lsof) need /usr/src. So in my opinion F> > these sources as is are useful for a very minor group of people, F> > those who aren't really developers/hackers, but for some reason F> > are not fully satisfied with binary packages. F> F> please don't underestimate the impact of this. Up until very recently, it was F> absolutely mandatory to build the drm-*-kmod from ports, because the pre-built F> packages were tied to the release version of the builders. Unless you were F> willing to update your machine exactly at the same time as the builders, you'd F> be greeted with kernel panics if you didn't build from ports. Means this F> "minor group" is probably the majority of GUI users. F> Also the src tree has to be installed in every poudriere jail, which can F> multiply the increase of used disk space in some cases. I'm running CURRENT on my laptop, so I use drm-*-kmod, and most of the time packages work for me. When they don't work, yep, I need to rebuild them with up-do-date /usr/src, but this is process of tracking CURRENT! I believe same can happen with a STABLE, if somebody is not very careful with merging their changes. In that case you would also need to rebuild, but you would also need to _update_ first. How do you update bare /usr/src? I can't understand why would you need to rebuild anything if you are running RELEASE and packages? If that ever happened, this is definitely fault of either someone's merge to stable, or maintainers of drm-kmod. But this can't be taken as a good reason to have those stub sources. F> It's not exactly clear to me what problem you want to solve? As a developer or F> someone doing src builds, updates are coming through git and packaging is not F> that relevant. Sure a one-liner would be nice. IIRC DragonflyBSD had those in a F> Makefile, that was quite convenient. Does installing the src tree as a git repo F> have any tangible benefits over that? The problem in my view is that we ship something that is useless in vast majority of the cases. In majority of the cases work starts with: rm -rf src && git checkout ... For those, who not yet learned that this is the normal beginning of work, the mere existense of the directory is misleading. -- Gleb Smirnoff