From nobody Mon Feb 03 19:59:42 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Ymy5r2CCXz5mXSp for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 20:00:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from walterp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x112d.google.com (mail-yw1-x112d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Ymy5r0C6Sz41xn for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 20:00:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from walterp@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yw1-x112d.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6f6ca1a8aa6so23394477b3.3 for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 12:00:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1738612815; x=1739217615; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YgzBb3+HSmbumdnDe4zXZAbNgzIRap5oPY4ZgSQqS0s=; b=BwyXsUm7RDSzwh2Eel9XTyykpH3yloxBq65ZwYOcP8XUKrvI6uTfMHmS8BAcdQDRYi STGv0QDmdV6r+pj3DImihe+G2sC8vQa72Yem4Lmm+c/IEvWadR+41SGGNKZYaa1oKaDm n80kVTg7p8FwL9oiK2ffUoQq9xBddzTHUbihJ2tnJi+lpYluCqatGpWR0cYe4iPbpS2O iX8nOlWO00i4mZ5cJeyA7eNuNh3fNn0GF+16UEaXGolNxJCAi62cM951zUHzrAVdcXLC 9tm+VtqERnWyw2BtbiD6jSO2TbHdEr4c5hC+KZbk5lmOpFfYoZgFd/lqeTdaFfUWNq8L zHmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1738612815; x=1739217615; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YgzBb3+HSmbumdnDe4zXZAbNgzIRap5oPY4ZgSQqS0s=; b=DToTC5Y1aEirjN9fJTYJMAm/95NyLmdXlgjFZaqFJu65H4G5C78docUh9UrHvI/Z2s APIpJyjiS1flhRs56JorMubw1ft+rxjyqIWR1X5Dq0wt9+OnOXdUTkCTiCwgr+qUFkSA DZ5YMk3mB41Xuw+NHL+/SgkPinWAuNKwo+b7xSgPj+yxQZZh2WYhFq1npwBaISIUotJM hHDSEr4NbsMTgixdlU4544WCN4nqOFziW9uyRl73fZIJr442TbKTpAom4O91TrmFB+ys 5k+6HS0JvByG3MFbp16PJ3gn7yvlyF6UGxCUACDnA9nnFWnk6WXW3jdCIx0UKB4wJlPv vb2A== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUoNG0tr7HmiA9qvfqbOuRS2eXvBQxipL+66W8Qtazq35GySvc04eYnghbiVRnm09DHemueQrwVmlr8dzMW9dk=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyD/PT61zP/wKLt/9XDUxnHgNH1xf9zDNms32fW9hoy5dW2uMBG e7Z/rPL/7wiQb4MxuDXNeg1/2+0naNhNm04O2ouyMLnLcDUpbfSiy7OCDzQrUzikUeTsIpUH7KO YOQIOMhQCJckjVUYOGwzu08PBjEjw25cn X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvmZgbkiQTBPpEsmzy8b9v5tteWhqwz8jdM+xgHDJJIquJRChnotUrdfDGC20j YPseLZNesAPcPq6br4UbeMl82uAe2qU4CLD2vngmn3BOfpgix8sB2+Qmc0kJRcjwMeGGh33s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEo2tBQ8TbZYIx7TDFsYcZpFPiyQxVL0yKKy8t0nW88Nzfhuyf9iRgnLOar7OuH0uH7juEW07+sbAXk4IDuMKs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:9a8c:b0:6ef:7f89:d906 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6f7a8424514mr180981667b3.33.1738612815210; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 12:00:15 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Walter Parker Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 11:59:42 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZlaEMcbFplc3KHujdzMwGm17e4PNfaIg6qEPY3KSQrSRBzlQI8NWMXMQuk Message-ID: Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) To: Warner Losh , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000040b503062d42572b" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Ymy5r0C6Sz41xn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] --00000000000040b503062d42572b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandei= s On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 10:58=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh wrote: > Most systems have a pretty splash screen, but a very noisy actual text > screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined to make that work if it has > broken (it used to work great). > I like this idea. A pretty splash screen for those that don=E2=80=99t want = text and a text screen for those that do. As a separate project, optional settings for reducing the output of the text screen would not be bad (but isn=E2=80=99t make it the default in the = server builds). > Warner > > On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex = wrote: > >> Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You might as well ask for a "prett= y" >> splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll. >> >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security >>> Mail) wrote: >>> S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. >>> My motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. >>> Windows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the >>> FreeBSD-curious to expect a lot less text on startup if things are goin= g >>> well. >>> >>> This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current >>> winner". >>> This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good >>> features. >>> >>> But this particular thing is a misfeature. I find it a big problem tha= t >>> computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing >>> something. >>> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95. This is >>> not a >>> feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity. It is a >>> problem >>> and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop >>> market. >>> As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion. >>> Was OSX >>> more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX >>> instead >>> of FreeBSD? >>> >>> Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to >>> optionally >>> enable silent boot are welcome. >>> >>> -- >>> Gleb Smirnoff >>> >>> --00000000000040b503062d42572b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by me= n=C2=A0of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. =C2=A0 -- Justice L= ouis D.=C2=A0Brandeis


On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 10:58=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
Most systems have a pretty splash screen, but a very no= isy actual text screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined to make that= work if it has broken (it used to work great).
=
I like this idea. A pretty splas= h screen for those that don=E2=80=99t want text and a text screen for those= that do.

As a separate = project, optional settings for reducing the output of the text screen would= not be bad (but isn=E2=80=99t make it the default in the server builds).= =C2=A0

<= div>
Warner

On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku= Bex <zagazaw= 2004@gmail.com> wrote:

Reme= mber that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You might as well ask for a "pretty&= quot; splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll.


On Mon= , Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Securit= y Mail) wrote:
S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. M= y motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. Wind= ows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the FreeBSD-curious = to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going well.

This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current w= inner".
This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good feat= ures.

But this particular thing is a misfeature.=C2=A0 I find it a big problem th= at
computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing something.<= br> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95.=C2=A0 This i= s not a
feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity.=C2=A0 It is a p= roblem
and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop mar= ket.
As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion.=C2= =A0 Was OSX
more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX ins= tead
of FreeBSD?

Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to optionally=
enable silent boot are welcome.

--
Gleb Smirnoff

--00000000000040b503062d42572b--