From nobody Mon Feb 03 19:22:09 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YmxG55yW5z5mSMM for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 19:22:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zagazaw2004@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x834.google.com (mail-qt1-x834.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::834]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YmxG51qtRz3rFW; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 19:22:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zagazaw2004@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qt1-x834.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46c7855df10so83463171cf.3; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 11:22:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1738610540; x=1739215340; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=y3EYPHt6Md27RhtqriHhVb5XTeSj2uJ3JcUw11LumEU=; b=d49AaaGKMcazwZbySYSPIoFHaBOYxaVu5KF28Wofc3hVM+C2IgygvjvI+fSDhx2vjw ntivQhtsGDvpLjP4V0Y26jdZoQEKPkGKn3JT56ZEEYhGXYFKI/l4aaFCYIGHjxuyVont wFc4PbUNzIrsVmfU7EuMErR3M3Nt6EFwSE70l9eur/YAsODFp4KYy8hJqRsBh0wSWpt0 r9BvDCqXCCklzfsYtlJnYd6srtNHp+mk4y9NRTs4A5vrn7gnJvBniKIKVdQfvbXhCu1Q 2y7PcSvBrTPH5LyPt4q0mf9M41/D5KVtjOZkjh3WZp/shSFvgHN4/MV6T9JkqEyt9Hn2 GcZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1738610540; x=1739215340; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=y3EYPHt6Md27RhtqriHhVb5XTeSj2uJ3JcUw11LumEU=; b=hPOdMtII1YDFHE3lnHFzcdDdoy33u+2+rQWBag2XMYY7zHeSyMn1QrJ5kL/sjfTA5J MA6pDINz1Zksp1YU7tjKmFAxwChDFxN7VwJ3CiwFgbT+yDTOGwYXirFvPSNigBLkBq+J ZrcrVNGU+/nl9eBDkxTUAzlaY5lZQPFBnXW70hmZHB508Yo7CGn/KDnG3C9RQ9NSLtl6 txBeppQmi1hmD8ziMLONvWDEF+nGZWA6VdBsk/sZlNvwRczplRF3bCyVhA3or3AplP3H +KSa18Eg9+cue/qzMzbZ4iKHCN94jKImA/k1XgoXWe/qyLIsQwqgib4YwvxxOJVoyQxA p9ww== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUemLn38suChSPmdrtEXQ8jlS1Wd02EP9tT+SYgYwQlVvDwCoXLrsz/lmGWczvY74CDdnG1WdGgHR0ESMfsSpU=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyav86Ca5ISCnS2Yh8nnMiNctkf6/TSeokyVXex+Bq1ZLbbdYhQ SABHR9aRBKyyQLTlzxgMlU1ufv9ngIGr7uxqpd7EtuaA35SnpAQn48e93b5m41PmrKiliN2ELBS oMT4nlLxrzE6tPkihxdpM3WwnLX8= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsM3VFgHWadrnOwrcEmampl/KMuBvamK6jTXO7L67mOrviURhy5A1KmgJV3es6 Lb8jmtmfYQHpbqs5Y35e3MZyu+Uivu15OZNslnzO+3BCFjBQ0zTQRwmTIUuy6p7dXxg9E6DOH5M 3QTGYRBF6ggTTixI3RGpJfPYWZjiJaZdY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFoiKlqgccFbUTb3IplWzE9U0smGao+Zxrrb89L2ivF4kW4/wLHrKSWUw7vYGET9cogX3O9sEFcIMVxnSV+LYE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:5108:b0:45d:8be9:b0e6 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46fd0b92332mr367864971cf.43.1738610540178; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 11:22:20 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Maku Bex Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 13:22:09 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZl-507HUCm_lCQ7sarFwMn5TM11xfBJfZMhaJ1nbZuE2oUgdiWDR8oK7DI Message-ID: Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) To: imp@bsdimp.com Cc: Gleb Smirnoff , "Steven Harms (High-Security Mail)" , Tomek CEDRO , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a67563062d41cfa6" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YmxG51qtRz3rFW X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] --000000000000a67563062d41cfa6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Because they all follow the same concept. The startup text is useless in that stage of the OS. If i need it for troubleshooting, dmesg can provide it. IMHO, no text or no splash are irrelevant if they don't speed up the boot process. Until we find a way to deal with this, it all boils down to how the end users like to see when their FreeBSD machine boots up. On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:58 Warner Losh wrote: > Most systems have a pretty splash screen, but a very noisy actual text > screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined to make that work if it has > broken (it used to work great). > > Warner > > On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex = wrote: > >> Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You might as well ask for a "prett= y" >> splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll. >> >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security >>> Mail) wrote: >>> S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. >>> My motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. >>> Windows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the >>> FreeBSD-curious to expect a lot less text on startup if things are goin= g >>> well. >>> >>> This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current >>> winner". >>> This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good >>> features. >>> >>> But this particular thing is a misfeature. I find it a big problem tha= t >>> computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing >>> something. >>> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95. This is >>> not a >>> feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity. It is a >>> problem >>> and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop >>> market. >>> As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion. >>> Was OSX >>> more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX >>> instead >>> of FreeBSD? >>> >>> Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to >>> optionally >>> enable silent boot are welcome. >>> >>> -- >>> Gleb Smirnoff >>> >>> --000000000000a67563062d41cfa6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Because they all follow the same concept. The startup text i= s useless in that stage of the OS. If i need it for troubleshooting, dmesg = can provide it. IMHO, no text or no splash are irrelevant if they don't= speed up the boot process. Until we find a way to deal with this, it all b= oils down to how the end users like to see when their FreeBSD machine boots= up.


On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:58 Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
Most systems have a pretty splash screen, bu= t a very noisy actual text screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined t= o make that work if it has broken (it used to work great).

Warner

On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex <zag= azaw2004@gmail.com> wrote:

Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You = might as well ask for a "pretty" splash screen instead of the diz= zying text scroll.


On Mon= , Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org> wrote:<= br>
On Sun, Feb 02, = 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security Mail) wrote:
S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. M= y motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. Wind= ows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the FreeBSD-curious = to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going well.

This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current w= inner".
This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good feat= ures.

But this particular thing is a misfeature.=C2=A0 I find it a big problem th= at
computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing something.<= br> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95.=C2=A0 This i= s not a
feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity.=C2=A0 It is a p= roblem
and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop mar= ket.
As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion.=C2= =A0 Was OSX
more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX ins= tead
of FreeBSD?

Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to optionally=
enable silent boot are welcome.

--
Gleb Smirnoff

--000000000000a67563062d41cfa6--