From nobody Mon Feb 03 18:58:06 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YmwkM2xpbz5mPN7 for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 18:58:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YmwkM0tkCz3kjM for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 18:58:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-21631789fcdso75699625ad.1 for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 10:58:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1738609098; x=1739213898; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=56YgCloaMQusFcnjwnpkoqcdxZkfi9FccNX+jFNvsUc=; b=S9wMgXYIMFGtLOFnbWYA74f4g62jlC6TELksQKSNpNOPv8wfIAk3lREHFDgUcrdg1d gKsTAbcaEb0/MWhH9BHJWHP2vwjU8XvsFidyIpEfVbgnL4C2cmK6vl1SXuV8caDyNT6C BC4WUEusuH3nFm5uQnDeOQ9iYA+UNA7r9GRmjeS6i1CEsl3jQA1fdwtm6KD8ByOLUqSq SsbuRDsAxIG1ydAaKfLg2gv9e5I3Q7Wq9cymY+JVNa7ccOYX7Tb0K+s8vGg54corxuc8 57+lgDwog5Ua7eVzrchmhA1xBNvcoN8UKgXxrb5bAabgBzri6nXKxqsuf4wa9/2f876I /FMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1738609098; x=1739213898; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=56YgCloaMQusFcnjwnpkoqcdxZkfi9FccNX+jFNvsUc=; b=unWSI60kRZP+D9HNod/Ja286ggi7ZpL73vKOoaVVItKT+8/g9+lxloE6DmCC/MGPIo C5Tkpp+aUoxJvZQz2cT+6yHKPGiILiaPpwYnz49oLOjEjijz6kZL/w1/ZY0QtZR5kn9c lQLyNsrNblvnEZeTYm2BIhP8uOosVnqnhg3nyrPoahzrFCLQnCSS1yBftTbzQbNxvUZv MUOXbzF2orclV6vEmiv8tVi8QNXGbpEFqbxuZWv4sBWQ4edoQharBI40nLbFl0WDHzvu KnVEqgrW4aM0WwNZt2i/x5ZsECOU4rPBTJyr2gY5rXSMfzs036LDPhCk3qcR1apOlVKF IzMA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVya+Aavf/l+3q/dEtmiD5DauFftRVD28P4O8eYHOJG7uAtzVlnRB9JvjV3oxykNRSBOP8S79o8wY7P/u/D5+I=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzy/EmcVrj8p3BfGP0hYq23I8gksNHRcbFJiTIOo2vYC5I95UlW 2pC1iOVbnyydhiE0IR9nuXHlP5xR8qkNFQM1zbszvFuBLU+1Kx/Ggc6WPWk99ozIq+4WUmgh1eP FYQhunH0BWy+yLrj03jc6ONUfFAvP0wugRcUZEQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu/P1sNSKK38Njed/cysmhOhXwXAshEQqHYlKsWrUCSX/X0+k8Y1b77YUURdJr 2on4FoUpWe4RU7M5ZRLFdljNYhZDzUV2aFmE6k5F9eYJWKHSTQdk3KN5nu0luDO0/jnh10m5v X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEQ9TbgQ9Wa+Qpz18+nsc3HK56DM49F47vFjHKtKeRcP37ItQpHXtirLqDtGOWiNbJ8w094pHDqbLNsVHyTDgQ= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:86d0:0:b0:725:4a1b:38ec with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-730271e3ca3mr584040b3a.3.1738609097679; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 10:58:17 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 11:58:06 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZlhJKmMjpyRkGq4yey9zC4IM-tsztqWjLy3VL6fO3c0hClfkV_SOt2OMBo Message-ID: Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) To: Maku Bex Cc: Gleb Smirnoff , "Steven Harms (High-Security Mail)" , Tomek CEDRO , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000abbe41062d41796d" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YmwkM0tkCz3kjM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] --000000000000abbe41062d41796d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Most systems have a pretty splash screen, but a very noisy actual text screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined to make that work if it has broken (it used to work great). Warner On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex wr= ote: > Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You might as well ask for a "pretty= " > splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll. > > On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > >> On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security >> Mail) wrote: >> S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. M= y >> motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. >> Windows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the >> FreeBSD-curious to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going >> well. >> >> This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current >> winner". >> This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good >> features. >> >> But this particular thing is a misfeature. I find it a big problem that >> computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing somethin= g. >> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95. This is >> not a >> feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity. It is a >> problem >> and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop >> market. >> As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion. >> Was OSX >> more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX >> instead >> of FreeBSD? >> >> Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to >> optionally >> enable silent boot are welcome. >> >> -- >> Gleb Smirnoff >> >> --000000000000abbe41062d41796d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Most systems have a pretty splash screen, but a very noisy= actual text screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined to make that wo= rk if it has broken (it used to work great).

Warner

On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex <= ;zagazaw2004@gmail.com> wro= te:

Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You might as well ask for a "= pretty" splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll.


On Mon= , Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM = +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security Mail) wrote:
S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. M= y motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. Wind= ows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the FreeBSD-curious = to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going well.

This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current w= inner".
This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good feat= ures.

But this particular thing is a misfeature.=C2=A0 I find it a big problem th= at
computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing something.<= br> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95.=C2=A0 This i= s not a
feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity.=C2=A0 It is a p= roblem
and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop mar= ket.
As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion.=C2= =A0 Was OSX
more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX ins= tead
of FreeBSD?

Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to optionally=
enable silent boot are welcome.

--
Gleb Smirnoff

--000000000000abbe41062d41796d--