From nobody Mon Feb 03 18:10:05 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Ymvfy0Yv6z5mHn7 for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 18:10:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zagazaw2004@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x834.google.com (mail-qt1-x834.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::834]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Ymvfx3bnRz3Thk; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 18:10:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zagazaw2004@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qt1-x834.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-467a63f5d1cso39199221cf.0; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 10:10:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1738606216; x=1739211016; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=AMw7jrE9lLOKN+9me+RJsfU1rya/QBBcYetIMtsSRRQ=; b=QG1pa8N7kPj/9umGOBAwZXdbaJqSReJ1A0i1YpUF7NvGsasRNEMYFkUMQIpXQkmMb6 b+b+sJ7TQxdZbm454XGcaJJy7Tla+FkRqm1CVaAAiG70HOIOQAAUdHG3YwNI1KDBzQ5S 0Pe8KHPLeGSlNwLVYoHa1fqHJzTobT0vJT99L2TyHenXGbs3gOsZQ7FI+R6mi+a/WF9q ++YAKWSD+u7J4bhthuDEbiA+vU6OvBT6q++ARW3TNv066ZTLRMqh89N/WHGL331t9vvX BPy1jmyby1AK2NZUTiigH8rdkyti29aAlPYkELictw8C44OQgphqzUb2HM6DlDVxymxH uoKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1738606216; x=1739211016; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=AMw7jrE9lLOKN+9me+RJsfU1rya/QBBcYetIMtsSRRQ=; b=nAc3EoBr2vO6Ozn/3a1RI0lDAxs1rG6mKGEPjSagx7BbkPR/2+Stnbw9B3H30MH5Zo QrSsDSjMVXxcQCRnwiQyGlV1B37Ko8bc76mpy62UlyvcFgpz/rQjoSc2EwpD9wrwkL+6 yAuybVbMjMk+MY3ktI8Fallt508RdyIhdkuMOoGOmc8fRQ/dKqmHpAdYu3+F2crO9M7w kVsP4gL9YSLR1hqaBudqGcwBN12g1MZrjHRyO8l7c5Imcx6gS6MaTA/QcGMN/VPAiXij 2Ve43hMqIoeA22f1a8ktqMuq8sVXYjN54LnLu9qimA6/eMyfBkKEUoxq2m2Ry0W24KuO O1UA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVTnUN9hJIPqm4tZ0spyJpx/TaFMAU0ulmR0bpZ2roEymtjVuRtM87DcURvTkX/B/LxPoo44IkcHWHuIs3RNLY=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzJxhhJIhv0xJtWX1XSmWZS9qOARv3ExVHFUZVFGgATlvIUmnIZ 0CdSdHbSEa0amvz3NMG+JATeHPkl/pr+IGQp1p4jO/rASyHM4R11Xf11ZDWvd//kUjeY8XddpCe pPXMshva1YLCo5xv0udawICf5O51Usg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncthxD2Kw7DBpGK3n7Ez6OHqiKatBScHSODrg27M4+BFzXKoz+MoXDwDZLKjMQU HCebggcCjwJs0vO/P34IZZZOxrSN+VPpOHKCKmaGnEAkI+1VDC0xewqlBX9KgM5OwwJVzayii36 yb18SKhcKwtD/galJg8JiwEReLj46sY8I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFicksgapchudzgQtavWpKNF0O4pV4JzJFqKQWNQx7asj/ebqW2IEzEm4GOt+LpUOZBQKdZnCI54YxkQ+v3Z+U= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5753:0:b0:46e:23bc:8589 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46fd0a9d7d2mr376617941cf.13.1738606216283; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 10:10:16 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Maku Bex Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 12:10:05 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZmCKPDNONdB5aEdEouDirofDVzxRWBGumzB6xSMdnEdW93ruQZA3e2fi5w Message-ID: Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) To: Gleb Smirnoff Cc: "Steven Harms (High-Security Mail)" , Tomek CEDRO , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ed0f64062d40cd8e" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Ymvfx3bnRz3Thk X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] --000000000000ed0f64062d40cd8e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Remember that quiet/silent != fast. You might as well ask for a "pretty" splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll. On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security > Mail) wrote: > S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. My > motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. > Windows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the > FreeBSD-curious to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going > well. > > This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current > winner". > This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good > features. > > But this particular thing is a misfeature. I find it a big problem that > computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing something. > This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95. This is > not a > feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity. It is a > problem > and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop > market. > As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion. > Was OSX > more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX > instead > of FreeBSD? > > Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to optionally > enable silent boot are welcome. > > -- > Gleb Smirnoff > > --000000000000ed0f64062d40cd8e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You might as well ask = for a "pretty" splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll.=


On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven H= arms (High-Security Mail) wrote:
S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. M= y motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. Wind= ows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the FreeBSD-curious = to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going well.

This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current w= inner".
This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good feat= ures.

But this particular thing is a misfeature.=C2=A0 I find it a big problem th= at
computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing something.<= br> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95.=C2=A0 This i= s not a
feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity.=C2=A0 It is a p= roblem
and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop mar= ket.
As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion.=C2= =A0 Was OSX
more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX ins= tead
of FreeBSD?

Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to optionally=
enable silent boot are welcome.

--
Gleb Smirnoff

--000000000000ed0f64062d40cd8e--