From nobody Mon Feb 03 18:05:29 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YmvYS5SPLz5mHKy for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 18:05:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YmvYS4ythz3RBs; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 18:05:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1738605932; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=+nOAHPcuDozaN0HQg1PXsZVl6enJ6pgcw7fR4/CGF4I=; b=NH2Q80fxQ0bdWe+4LKCBRnKNGY9bxylA/1vEox60ihTgOGLPQpQjS2B5g/HoTSOsC+BW8i 5Fr3d0pfrzSi+ZyhnSUckcC82a/uoK3RynMEB4c2RDbk5dS8g+XuRKHvy9njDawFbG5Qtx q+9xfJvnze9tcM4QXRj7o9aipcs2RjAzvAmvm7ZQ9NixYvbrocNkxDgrJOMV9DPTpQ0qHd IK8/TyU6iaiBzcUwMXv95Md4+7ks9nfRqVd5Oh+3ZzM8dzp9YDByshVfV/4ND3uGGUmIw0 thTHPUw/oythW9E89ssXYnXBz+qYW1f/zatYn7zWZN1fOao2QN8Fi4En/K80QQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1738605932; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=+nOAHPcuDozaN0HQg1PXsZVl6enJ6pgcw7fR4/CGF4I=; b=rV2fz9Sy6Vl/rV7/eZe1OYTsL2x6T3feVEUDdQvGT8UsHvDqfFgVXto9oGx2QrHaq6x2YH /ICBCbNmbYMZixPp0oZHrPAS+npqQO9BTxFVJe5ICntyLbluauyJQ1c2N7D2p9V3YxIdWx ebRYqoUJRvFZzak6usK32vigoLL0DiaYKkeyUtB0aMrvbwW9ZpigwFog3Cu0d5I+LjC0a1 k5aPcU+gwku0IhQAJKoQcRnOkw2qXYScuY1lA0czjRo4vDwjaQJkJ9aoCJovh3wIJTFSZN aEEmopDhRLOuBfTxEE2d4B8qoLfjNuZvU/PuSRlocY68FGZ7TNcCnPq3lZlzcw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1738605932; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZGOYePC7WIkNeCphFZhitiEXgaZO5J8ltAehHNU78dxtYJxZZgzNlPVAe77rMQ9UJwJ5ne TADVDYKGZsI5wIC9flTCpGBN5ZiTM3x5VSCYpSgOKlbM5Tpem6OrtuFY2/rF+NT9qf1gol EQhHsfFuFxaBZq5Rl3wWxej68dP2+IRe0hMW4RBwSUZuHGpnGCqsHfwMr+Hn3Hs4WkRs9M /wqMUAjGPR0w/ANibtIX/WwUh7+QIm1VLzrKQEYxhcqj6S7X9nKxtRMaeg6CVmMA72shzV trDziJxUM4qFCqORJsGD8umB1eErIHOUC2BYuD5AiLUS+PpEi7zBBfRfD8XWFQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from cell.glebi.us (glebi.us [162.251.186.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: glebius) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4YmvYS0b9yz1JSb; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 18:05:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 10:05:29 -0800 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: "Steven Harms (High-Security Mail)" Cc: Tomek CEDRO , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) Message-ID: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security Mail) wrote: S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. My motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. Windows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the FreeBSD-curious to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going well. This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current winner". This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good features. But this particular thing is a misfeature. I find it a big problem that computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing something. This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95. This is not a feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity. It is a problem and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop market. As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion. Was OSX more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX instead of FreeBSD? Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to optionally enable silent boot are welcome. -- Gleb Smirnoff