From nobody Sun Feb 02 20:25:59 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YmLkB3ZThz5mvHv for ; Sun, 02 Feb 2025 20:26:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YmLk96zMYz3Yxg for ; Sun, 02 Feb 2025 20:26:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E95089295; Sun, 02 Feb 2025 20:26:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 512KQ05r004151; Sun, 2 Feb 2025 20:26:00 GMT (envelope-from phk) Message-Id: <202502022026.512KQ05r004151@critter.freebsd.dk> To: "Steven Harms (High-Security Mail)" cc: Tomek CEDRO , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) In-reply-to: <44Sc-RwC_I83PwTD-UykFfG8EFcHnBwZscSteeNEqJ_sdnmc-wrhdj-kWf2XxYDln0qB70HW3AD9qqBLEkBNeohWxlugR68PuDNYVR85PBE=@stevengharms.com> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <44Sc-RwC_I83PwTD-UykFfG8EFcHnBwZscSteeNEqJ_sdnmc-wrhdj-kWf2XxYDln0qB70HW3AD9qqBLEkBNeohWxlugR68PuDNYVR85PBE=@stevengharms.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4149.1738527959.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2025 20:25:59 +0000 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YmLk96zMYz3Yxg X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU] I'm just going to throw this idea out here: Various non-UNIX operating systems dedicate a small piece of raw disk to logging purposes, and stick everything on there, instead of blasting it at users, who seldom care and cannot read that fast anyway. The big advantage is that the log is incredibly robust, as long as the disk works, it gets recorded. But the log is also easy to get to, both from a running system and from a disk which is beyond repair. Admittedly, most of the systems I have seen this on, had simple disk-controller interfaces, whereas we have who knows how many different kinds of devices and interfaces which masqurade as "disks". But we already have infrastructure for swap-spaces and dumping to them, even when the kernel is pretty hosed, so one would not have to start the project from scratch. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.