From nobody Sun Feb 02 11:39:27 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Ym72t4Bzxz5mQYx for ; Sun, 02 Feb 2025 11:39:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee) Received: from mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Ym72s4BWHz3jp7 for ; Sun, 02 Feb 2025 11:39:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ketas.si.pri.ee header.s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096 header.b=uyMOiTWu; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee designates 2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=ketas.si.pri.ee X-Original-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ketas.si.pri.ee; s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096; t=1738496368; bh=KYBqx52HEt2qWfo9Mv7FxHvnkIycHnZ9VqPrl8ZDP3I=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=uyMOiTWuppt6al8JkN9QNfJabOibH3FCqSuKtdbJu55ztf3kg6vdGBSdw0Sm+mTgX 6JjJ0A9JXfvFLJygf+TZmqZqfHV4VDLvBLy5dsDNyib1U6ckWifPDqG3Hkct2QOofO RmWdME2pl9O5s5ITUaC4x9eP63vFB99+vXZtDr4JyieH2Rasu4eNj+hua6iW/eojPD JkiuQjv3pjjKZXWDrEr88+iK8rMbvY59E6m60Qtp13LB4d5ZLm9Y/ZvdJT8dfL1Jl+ Ad2wNUmv1PrWUOzFUcrfqHLBgZs4JuH1gk+DLd935Y/BS2vOQwoqu2vjC1KgIYjDGv G85VE0EN+rLjD5LwUs00nd2DTwddfqYnkc4b7+r4OWCqcu5VjfJGfRV6IQhkuXH09I usBm3WZG9xH3z4nFJHyQMEwhMWeJZfCPfyZWCDRek2wQtAMzpQ5orY6CGDbW8EQLO0 kiKpGRppG0KXkd8yKAABrN9zSsxUWi+vulj28Irhba5NVs/7ksHRL/E5FVXuSfiqf3 J5Xa39DjN0Py/PQ0sXKbdZBQ52Zc4/HqSzffyD2p5SCUgKszOYqojH6mNQwJBd1tIo flqP2sjpoBo+Hu+hxpuNlB73kqtwsp2M8q9tmlKXafknPj3b26ZALzugp1KDF0Msya N0bXHtvsEnevJpVrlAhKRHPU= Received: from [IPv6:::1] (0114-0000-0000-0000-13c8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13c8::114]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02E9758BAC1 for ; Sun, 02 Feb 2025 13:39:27 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2025 13:39:27 +0200 From: Sulev-Madis Silber To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0EF11DA1-448F-4A5A-A6E2-7764985C5C95@ketas.si.pri.ee> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.70 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.969]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.939]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ketas.si.pri.ee,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ketas.si.pri.ee:s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:7d0:8437:1300::/56]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3249, ipnet:2001:7d0::/32, country:EE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ketas.si.pri.ee:+] X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Ym72s4BWHz3jp7 if i read what hellosystem did to whole init, i can't see how it could be i= mplemented easily, nevermind it being default=2E they also disabled ttys an= d everything unsure what the solution would be here there are number of custom fbsd inits, even i have it, with defaults unlik= ely to be suitable for anyone except me=2E i have plans to take some of tha= t and add as features to see if they would have use elsewhere i never looked, can you disable kernel output too? someone suggested redir= ecting output to serial where it disappears or using splashes=2E that, of c= ourse hides everything=2E can't even debug errors=2E it's like windows syst= em, if you ask someone to help you, they might ask what's on the screen, th= en you say nothing, it just sits the with empty screen=2E then helper would= be like oh bummer too=2E it's all nice quiet and dumb maybe there could be midpoint here=2E maybe some key or something=2E unsur= e how it would work tho=2E as it goes from loader to kernel to init/multius= er i get the issue, just can't think of easy solution here that wouldn't piss= off others=2E by watching init, it's easy to spot setup errors=2E yeah, gr= anted, if you even know what it all means i'm thinking of what linux distros do=2E they are more common on laptops= =2E i haven't heard them hiding all and nor do i hear massive complaints ab= out "machine scribberish"? who knows what the real solution is=2E patch init to hell and back, to inc= lude all that=2E make special desktop overlay, so the granny won't ask son,= what's the wlan0? remember, init still needs to be fast and usable after all this work and m= aybe it can't be default=2E nevermind that current install is inherently un= friendly and doesn't really allow one to boot into open firefox home page e= asily=2E and who can make it happen, are unlikely to be bothered with messa= ges i get the problem tho also, when people, maybe not on fbsd but else where, complained that it bo= ots over a minute, how can it be=2E who even boots machines that much=2E th= at was for servers=2E maybe laptops get booted nore often, esp=2E how the s= uspend doesn't often work and nevermind to disk, that's not even implemente= d=2E so people boot=2E also, is this recent or what=2E systems have booted = for some time since forever=2E ok this is about time, not messages=2E maybe= times indeed need blank screens with nice images i'm like, when i reboot android phone, i often wonder why does it shutdown= or init that long=2E i wish i could see, if i want, what it does=2E i bet = here it's similar, how to, like, get messages if needed, all, of one wants,= and definitely any irrecoverable errors, eg failed storage or so maybe i have use for it on my own even if somebody comes out with all arou= nd good solution