From nobody Sun Feb 02 03:20:26 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YlvzF4VLhz5mqJ6 for ; Sun, 02 Feb 2025 03:20:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YlvzD6f4pz3w5F for ; Sun, 02 Feb 2025 03:20:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (124-18-43-234.area1a.commufa.jp [124.18.43.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.17.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 5123KQdW084586; Sun, 2 Feb 2025 12:20:28 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1738466429; bh=y3PxRXgNP7HwAwOVTmNx5r1BUD8HaS6LmPQhfjd/b0s=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=lxjjyUEqJIVR7OFbn/XcXyBSB570fSas8Ft1wGXQvANYbqTaeksxToBXL7sPWIruf 62F0jkHE3Xo4wd1vgNb4hzF40qRzZx+fXAWalFsjq5/JQEEb/xFkY4Id3pZj2jdgXa b0NQWqlC3I7GBy/PjJB6d4JSr1fRGA25oj5TpPPA= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2025 12:20:26 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Chris Cc: Tomek CEDRO , "Steven Harms (High-Security Mail)" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) Message-Id: <20250202122026.4156f4775c54efa17fcae949@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.2) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YlvzD6f4pz3w5F X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] On Sat, 01 Feb 2025 17:42:48 -0800 Chris wrote: > On 2025-02-01 16:18, Tomek CEDRO wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 12:16 AM Steven Harms (High-Security Mail) > > wrote: > >> Greetings, > >> I have created https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/pull/1582 in an > >> effort to quiet down some of the chattiness of module linking and network > >> diagnostics on startup. I'm used to working in a git-based workflow and saw > >> no action on the PR, so I thought I would notify here. If that's not the > >> correct procedure, please advise. > >> Thanks for all the work everyone on the list does! > >> Steven > > > > Thanks @sgharms :-) I am against the change in current form because: > > * The concept may be useful for someone but it shall be a manually > > selectable option like `rc_mute` (in analog to `boot_mute`) and not a > > default. Maybe `rc_loglevel` that can get `silent, error, warning, > > info, verbose, debug` levels to rc scripts and services? Change does > > not provide a choice. > > * Boot log messages are extremely useful, they contain important > > diagnostic messages, these need to be logged even if silenced, these > > cannot be just sent to `/dev/null`. Change alters (breaks) logging. > > * Why not just put a boot logo image if you really do not want to see > > the boot messages? It will provide better user experience as expected > > but will not break the diagnostic information that are usually useful. > > > > My 2 cents :-) > I'm in complete agreement with Tomek. This (proposed) change has security > implications. One gets used to the messages that scroll by. Which makes it > easier to notice different ones, which might implicate security related > problems. "Ignorance is bliss". But has its cost. While I can see a possible > interest by some for this change. I think 1) it should never be default, > 2) the boot logo option already exists, and easily addresses the "noisiness" > complaint some may have. > > Thanks for your interest. > > -- > sent from a device written from and running on FreeBSD +1. Some (especially IoTs / set top boxes) would want no messages unless unrecoverable error happenes, but OTOH, some (mainly developers and some admins) would be feeling even current verbose logging is insufficient. (Possibly want all dtrace probes to be printed in some cases?) So adding new log levels (including no massages) would be nice, but forcing no messages is not a good way to go. -- Tomoaki AOKI