From nobody Tue May 21 13:20:09 2024 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VkFRX3q1xz5LKtK for ; Tue, 21 May 2024 13:20:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4VkFRW6sxSz4F3f for ; Tue, 21 May 2024 13:20:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52389c1308dso5019816e87.3 for ; Tue, 21 May 2024 06:20:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1716297621; x=1716902421; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=N4AqVNCs1LHhfhx1Yg3hmwVCHAo4E/YxqvROQDSpFiM=; b=cp+/+GMAt5ETBs8rkCScEYT48I4EE6q9b9/N2nihI3k4SKVZ1MGF7LplTcttYaI1mT p/SXHAEvLQpgme+Ed0eBMP+AsAaH8GuC5dY48up1ojJTsfXBjeUwmFyb78vwimZiB0Aa dQbeeXyGSoPxfkPAfqzoF357oYA6opLmZ4SIf6Sl6XewW/LeS4H2iGx1FNp5BDCd5jNz conEWMeRZOIvTmtyR3zJge3T6uIWW63qdANW4empRnhWQr122kTKzw/849WhAHPrqgCN FH11+AyCIWv2RYg3KBlktjAPM7CCmrLO/iaYl4AxUjr091whNqnl0NH/zlh609SELW0i E7aQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1716297621; x=1716902421; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=N4AqVNCs1LHhfhx1Yg3hmwVCHAo4E/YxqvROQDSpFiM=; b=UgLasBB3WTazL4wNLe8n6e0Ghm9xtjir67m24eiUUKVdkPIyC8PhasTAr7qw8zHTL9 EyeL9lvPjCvF+pZ9llEZefydovMrh/U49R9hqkDD5ArhF7e63vl0gUQkpi6lG2rUWoZt k+40Rwwj7L0VQJGFOTHKcps+PywTkGLmc7+KsgPY8z2KnYdrUL0aQRXsM9/Ik6lXKIQc aroS/XoVzFTUE007c+n4YtTXGDbFeZkNmKNTgWOy/TvYIf/VL7DxVPE4lKL2STpbBZgp UUTe/odoxu8gyuYM1pWapJIODOCbjL2piLEqgsc9c7Z2I9PUWdp054RKIoSj2x0cAorf r4Xw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWIyCBTE1V3wuNzxOBHnSf9zrNvNs32DOjHV2+RD+mSvwsrVYXvGCXGkvaKqQxDNhyT1B7TWhZoWa6DAZ6uO0Ovm9jr X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyA/Cs+SH4t7YShwnlAsPjBKUa5ArUFSIfy7nYff1/Xuvux1NYQ +W13X8BQVWhjWqJXn0fQBFBmpOneRCRXto/DZos/LtMLcXWp3Sq/f3HDbx5fZbotF+JBJ6gP6oY cEZrv86tvMAtsGfjZx7IZEh18FB+nCR5Fzmw1mQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGVCZyvMdTxBebaPuLvRQH1oB3cEOrNUn6NOGRe/jiluxySovxIab/9EpvNYhFBMZXUSAgOiLE+JSZyQAisZu4= X-Received: by 2002:a19:5f56:0:b0:51a:f596:9d53 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5221016e9cbmr19563247e87.42.1716297621480; Tue, 21 May 2024 06:20:21 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20qspnq2-8qp0-pq49-rq65-986n0q4r6rqq@fncre.vasb> <86msojvgfb.fsf@ltc.des.dev> In-Reply-To: <86msojvgfb.fsf@ltc.des.dev> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 21 May 2024 07:20:09 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: __memcpy_chk family of functions To: =?UTF-8?Q?Dag=2DErling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= Cc: Marcin Cieslak , current@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000ec7210618f6ae23" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4VkFRW6sxSz4F3f --0000000000000ec7210618f6ae23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 12:16=E2=80=AFAM Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > Marcin Cieslak writes: > > I have updated some binary packages using pkg(8) but neglected to > > rebuild the world and my favourite web browsers no longer started > > complaining about the undefined symbol __memcpy_chk@FBSD_1.8 > > > > Would that be a good idea to add that information to the Handbook and > > possible bump FreeBSD_version and add this info to UPDATING? > > The purpose of UPDATING is to document changes that break backward > compatibility, i.e. running old binaries on a newer world. What > happened here is that you tried to run newer binaries on an older world, > an issue of _forward_ compatibility, which we've never promised. > Besides, an entry in UPDATING wouldn't have helped you since your source > tree predated the change that would have added it. > Also, our forward compatibility guarantees are extremely weak. At most the outer bounds are around a sliding window to upgrade from source, using root in single user on the console. So having to revert to an old kernel to build a new kernel when there's a problem, or having to revert to an old kernel to rebuild old sources. And even then it's not something we test, so it's likely broken or broken once you get a hair's width away from that path. Plus, with BEs and the easy ability to roll back to the prior BE, even this level of forward compat is likely to decay further in the future. Warner --0000000000000ec7210618f6ae23 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 12:16=E2=80= =AFAM Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav <des@f= reebsd.org> wrote:
Marcin Cieslak <saper@saper.info> writes:
> I have updated some binary packages using pkg(8) but neglected to
> rebuild the world and my favourite web browsers no longer started
> complaining about the undefined symbol __memcpy_chk@FBSD_1.8
>
> Would that be a good idea to add that information to the Handbook and<= br> > possible bump FreeBSD_version and add this info to UPDATING?

The purpose of UPDATING is to document changes that break backward
compatibility, i.e. running old binaries on a newer world.=C2=A0 What
happened here is that you tried to run newer binaries on an older world, an issue of _forward_ compatibility, which we've never promised.
Besides, an entry in UPDATING wouldn't have helped you since your sourc= e
tree predated the change that would have added it.
Also, our forward compatibility guarantees are extremely weak.= =C2=A0 At most the outer
bounds are around a sliding window to up= grade from source, using root in single user
on the console. So h= aving to revert to an old kernel to build a new kernel when there's
a problem, or having to revert to an old kernel to rebuild old sourc= es. And even then
it's not something we test, so it's lik= ely broken or broken once you get a hair's width
away from th= at path. Plus, with BEs and the easy ability to roll back to the prior BE,<= /div>
even this level of forward compat is likely to decay further in t= he future.

Warner
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