From nobody Tue Jan 30 07:53:06 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TPHVs3NWBz58KHn for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:54:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from mailgate.Leidinger.net (bastille.leidinger.net [89.238.82.207]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (P-256) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mailgate.leidinger.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TPHVr5lVqz4sCQ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:54:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1706601238; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=xgLNwlZwuAAZJOyyfXGpeeG5rGQaQVUiZpg3RGKCoGA=; b=1debEQgHtEhJg7yQP+f7NJtZpjphZJRRRRDcvXGGTzaVPZHcGcjTpRr8BdGt1H2X3zefVk Xgj5CbAk93Znq2bO/D7kj7BdtmD530Bqqe0zPDJzi1agH5FmVIfmU/3T+0TtVh9lLMKrq0 DDEPCXRB8aCFWROixr6EfN0X5/x7xe3XcAV4XMZfjdnPssGak2lICjsj3rQiNHgkEs6LtK vpQyh7LN74A7ORPqWwQAzRgLDZJsw4G1OXlsygafcvtYofAu1jZptELfWVIIg0Kgpxa+Nl 8Qb7Gz8l2GTgudqroTA9tmRjC2pN+kDj1gYFGYsdQlyWxF36iYZHLPbpp/M9wQ== Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 08:53:06 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Warner Losh Cc: Olivier Certner , Mike Karels , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 In-Reply-To: References: <11453367.ZaXhgXhNnV@ravel> <6430CD93-B4D1-49D6-A39B-B8BCF424258F@karels.net> <3896441.telDhacX5M@ravel> Message-ID: Organization: No organization, this is a private message. Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=_53eb568801c96d0fa085e1e2ea2426aa"; micalg=pgp-sha256 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TPHVr5lVqz4sCQ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34240, ipnet:89.238.64.0/18, country:DE] This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --=_53eb568801c96d0fa085e1e2ea2426aa Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Am 2024-01-30 01:21, schrieb Warner Losh: > On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 2:31 PM Olivier Certner > wrote: >>> It also seems undesirable to add a sysctl to control a value that the >>> kernel doesn't use. >> >> The kernel has to use it to guarantee some uniform behavior >> irrespective of the mount being performed through mount(8) or by a >> direct call to nmount(2). I think this consistency is important. >> Perhaps all auto-mounters and mount helpers always run mount(8) and >> never deal with nmount(2), I would have to check (I seem to remember >> that, a long time ago, when nmount(2) was introduced as an enhancement >> over mount(2), the stance was that applications should use mount(8) >> and not nmount(2) directly). Even if there were no obvious callers of >> nmount(2), I would be a bit uncomfortable with this discrepancy in >> behavior. > > I disagree. I think Mike's suggestion was better and dealt with POLA > and POLA breaking in a sane way. If the default is applied universally > in user space, then we need not change the kernel at all. We lose all > the chicken and egg problems and the non-linearness of the sysctl idea. I would like to add that a sysctl is some kind of a hidden setting, whereas /etc/fstab + /etc/defaults/fstab is a "right in the face" way of setting filesystem / mount related stuff. [...] > It could also be generalized so that the FSTYPE could have different > settings for different types of filesystem (maybe unique flags that > some file systems don't understand). +1 nosuid for tmpfs comes into my mind here... > One could also put it in /etc/defaults/fstab too and not break POLA > since that's the pattern we use elsewhere. +1 > Anyway, I've said my piece. I agree with Mike that there's consensus > for this from the installer, and after that consensus falls away. > Mike's idea is one that I can get behind since it elegantly solves the > general problem. +1 Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF --=_53eb568801c96d0fa085e1e2ea2426aa Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc; size=833 Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEER9UlYXp1PSd08nWXEg2wmwP42IYFAmW4qvIACgkQEg2wmwP4 2IYpvw//cu7vY0OfkJje0v0rZ7fuu5zJl4AoWTRult/0uNKhfcU9sj/K+Pif82WX vZ8aRlQquhnRUEK/n+ltIjQj7hKgqFaGVsymu2gUpA5mxVmOgPRYUwGbhsyLYjEC d5Lyp8OCyCIsNbWQNe1/Y4UWBlzrR5BCF/8hiWMQJVRJ7wXew0I4NiNJrfNf3ptz s4AcV8kNdt9X72ArD5p/wjuc5VcnM7OJP15k58OoKfNV5S1XHH1pFXIJceTLYLMz 9/p0LeyaJbUnzqSSbiSu97znBIdIkZuFh9MA5bfyj6ttg6DF2Tnun4UtkOl7zUtl sTVziXjQCoeyX1cpC7aDxGZGIXlR36XmA6+zJOLfeC3TOqIPz61IHLPGe+kXuqrp Xjodi8sWd7GAylnO3viMxRUcxHCjNhwXtFruSNvO4eRBWktZ02/XGlYFR9RUS83G senjvfaQupVz+pXnr0JluohlJhE8Y+PX8fC7Gat8bfPWcwIJGr4orTe+lIPffuL7 j1JqK6TXwIJO6JDX/TTXZC7KmxYhpB4fchDqgtxqUO6AOQ+xfkC3xog6CG6dlXbs 6A20zsorvj+vUTrzYPSP+BJHK5d/pFnB9XzZ5EQwHFdVA0COuhQdI5ZH6vd92qTd kTFSfNxB8OD0V/8q3TYK1Im9BxoBdgOFX5Xd0XSkyh4lWdvelFA= =CERi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_53eb568801c96d0fa085e1e2ea2426aa--