From nobody Fri Jan 12 08:08:12 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TBDh34KQ5z56JhB for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:08:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from mailgate.Leidinger.net (mailgate.leidinger.net [IPv6:2a00:1828:2000:313::1:5]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (P-256) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mailgate.leidinger.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TBDh31B3sz4RXX; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:08:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1705046917; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=MOGgk0QQL/fIjC0yRekWkXitKrR0iHZYi4CPuKsc3lU=; b=wuSOn5eoE3KvICbvxQxTciOt4ZRWyBGnYNwXJ/4DtqnegEdidmmgMCqN7yBO1msTNoaAH/ 9i0ejGgS/slof8VneA+l3WH3D3pWpqrElxknW9qnP60zEhMVHQY9Ol9uiAljz67R9bLs6Z kx1pRNUcxDHyhaafbODTv1TGcxv9vBDjN8ZD5Xem+Aj8xcLCiFXSXPyh8eyTUAEZFm4d/R 8DSq4opYCflcu77iaPX2nWKyARCx3noafx6Tv9cRsjlrO601+PPz9yYRazG8dcLiZzPZyf N0gHtRUXLDDtfejenlmh4PSP2BfVH2DAdVCovOjPfgwf/YEtWxVTR7+s/MMNBA== Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:08:12 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Mark Millard , olce@freebsd.org, Current FreeBSD Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 In-Reply-To: <202401111715.40BHFJ3Q049600@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <202401111715.40BHFJ3Q049600@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Message-ID: Organization: No organization, this is a private message. Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=_9423ef4cea3d84be08c8eda0bc982c46"; micalg=pgp-sha256 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TBDh31B3sz4RXX X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34240, ipnet:2a00:1828::/32, country:DE] This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --=_9423ef4cea3d84be08c8eda0bc982c46 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Am 2024-01-11 18:15, schrieb Rodney W. Grimes: >> Am 2024-01-10 22:49, schrieb Mark Millard: >> >> > I never use atime, always noatime, for UFS. That said, I'd never >> > propose >> > changing the long standing defaults for commands and calls. I'd avoid: >> >> [good points I fully agree on] >> >> There's one possibility which nobody talked about yet... changing the >> default to noatime at install time in fstab / zfs set. > > Perhaps you should take a closer look at what bsdinstall does > when it creates a zfs install pool and boot environment, you > might just find that noatime is already set everywhere but > on /var/mail: > > /usr/libexec/bsdinstall/zfsboot:: ${ZFSBOOT_POOL_CREATE_OPTIONS:=-O > compress=lz4 -O atime=off} > /usr/libexec/bsdinstall/zfsboot: /var/mail atime=on While zfs is a part of what I talked about, it is not the complete picture. bsdinstall covers UFS and ZFS, and we should keep them in sync in this regard. Ideally with an option the user can modify. Personally I don't mind if the default setting for this option would be noatime. A quick serach in the scripts of bsdinstall didn't reveal to me what we use for UFS. I assume we use atime. >> I fully agree to not violate POLA by changing the default to noatime >> in >> any FS. I always set noatime everywhere on systems I take care about, >> no >> exceptions (any user visible mail is handled via maildir/IMAP, not >> mbox). I haven't made up my mind if it would be a good idea to change >> bsdinstall to set noatime (after asking the user about it, and later >> maybe offer the possibility to use relatime in case it gets >> implemented). I think it is at least worthwile to discuss this >> possibility (including what the default setting of bsdinstall should >> be >> for this option). > > Little late... iirc its been that way since day one of zfs support > in bsdinstall. Which I don't mind, as this is what I use anyway. But the correct way would be to let the user decide. Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF --=_9423ef4cea3d84be08c8eda0bc982c46 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc; size=833 Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEER9UlYXp1PSd08nWXEg2wmwP42IYFAmWg83wACgkQEg2wmwP4 2IbcTg//RmfEBJV+eG9a0zxjb9cSn6G1oEa5ItVtJAlO2nOagkXrfOud7mbxRD4Z QuMDnfN4NkOnEjzHB94dHE3OimZjkscauXmPFRkREuG72nZPzrpNTctDtV1+MK66 cS0BiTjrtWs3W+JwEOJMFsRYQRwJPlxsfYLUjoNJK5GWn1nIOKxnVs7ih5tv0K3Q W86MNrFa4WZsNZZxDB1C8OSgymjQ40wmqpNtYy1QlIEMTSrXrDQChF3Q6OK6xWms bpQbYIVdvlNAlnXqpXsF1duzOmUgn4Bq08mH517aP+IUblBqLeuNGb15ySif2XRf QERQcPy1U7AfhDlJ1A1CWCACYnxNAaUI+nMiZbpRt4sY/r8eUxr4ZAwNYUk4A4Eb qwxOVIQQBJSiQtme27+x1fmsyojwZrPHPHSLzBjF9mTLOdMUcXL4RChJRjG71R+U VLicWxyOag7nKCSbGnNP3HKcWoNgzsT/7bPJTVTjifPKh3z4R6lJj0o+PYl7ZUFA HZsaCOqsYsZPJ95zgdMBrrykHrRtl4gCIghg/4uhz9sobLCq2kBB148AE+Hb4/iL K5BPdQPAVssptG1RnB6d3vCdVr+yrto9HiF5Q5HQQe//9GxJrben2aD3TKBkspZu SNxZUFPC6QRiXasMyiEqte7Yj0AyTKUTvMutJmgevqfAyPeZ+hw= =aLUJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_9423ef4cea3d84be08c8eda0bc982c46--