From nobody Thu Jan 11 19:56:30 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4T9wR81y54z56qJ8 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:56:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [IPv6:2001:19f0:7400:8808:123::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4T9wR72l5Mz45qp; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:56:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=catflap.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jamie@catflap.org designates 2001:19f0:7400:8808:123::1 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jamie@catflap.org X-Catflap-Envelope-From: X-Catflap-Envelope-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [209.250.224.51]) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 40BJuUVs045686; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:56:30 GMT (envelope-from jamie@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id 40BJuURB045685; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:56:30 GMT (envelope-from jamie) From: Jamie Landeg-Jones Message-Id: <202401111956.40BJuURB045685@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:56:30 +0000 Organization: Dyslexic Fish To: olce@FreeBSD.org, imp@bsdimp.com Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 References: <1749331.ETpRK2a2Mi@ravel> <2136329.mxFCRLsXLg@ravel> In-Reply-To: <2136329.mxFCRLsXLg@ravel> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [209.250.224.51]); Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:56:30 +0000 (GMT) X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.26 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.56)[-0.564]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[catflap.org,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:dyslexicfish.net]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[jamie]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:7400::/38, country:US]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4T9wR72l5Mz45qp Olivier Certner wrote: > Both the examples above prompt some straight objections on the current usefulness of "atime". First, unless you've disabled building the locate database in cron (enabled by default, on a weekly basis), access times on directories lose most of their usefulness. Second, if using an IDS, I'm afraid it's just game over. And even if you think you are not, '460.pkg-checksum' at least is readily there to much complicate, or even prevent you from, getting package usage information this way (it is enabled by default, and on a daily basis). I've often wished there was the ability to set a process to "noatime" - where all accesses to the filesytem by the process and its children don't alter atime. It would be handy for those cases you describe above, such as backups and locate, but these days, where it matters, and is suitable, I instead create a filesystem snapshot, and run the process on that instead. (which is how "live" backups should be done anyway!) Cheers, Jamie