From nobody Thu Oct 12 05:12:59 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4S5d7f4xMqz4xG23 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 05:13:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4S5d7f4JZSz4jDq; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 05:13:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1697087582; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=1PzQuexNLhf/+s6a8WFs5RCsUU7o8XCndgx/jHdR90A=; b=vklNZez3iC7I/+lQqfi75Q8pOBdo1juoV2V1U7X5spfsJG8/IzepUjxBBL6W8O/dG49UWg 9jLgYaNRCgMqTA7EDy6Qeeol6vfqpeNYsyYzGJfnNaGYxe80zQL83mbI+Ouwdvj4yXm6Aa OHl1yi33vxle6H/NG7LZ3v2K9OjElFleCH7iKM9FfmPhExk6pDorQXgdTnm0FBzKOGJADk ss4lxD3toXb+bkg7R8SW3i7g5sip/tyJF65B8xsizCKlF+wegmcLXr+mB/ksLvosr4QfSn OsJHBHx/guOrsQsBGcfNBwDFqhS+qmQ9+5N5LgPRbxQqkdugb58Yg0oGe8MtMw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1697087582; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=MfgXdg3dDXQd+xCbCBbOqyXTDeiR6e77EoFRxsKurZRW0ynmr0roxCaqWtIB05rTCMysmM pMFluTp9gOo9kzsLKYTWD8RaMvyl9MeCLUxNhSEXkbkBIqykdEcEeFFPJQDXEaaBc5P2Fl pB3p2HA7vAG9pvwENJhacP0QWvfIX+dkw00CqPfene4CH+tghpkllWJEK89a8PpGU8q5Q0 8WGf6lxT9Du8K9GnJA+kNMpAAJN5l3Gn7zt0oUDOIhHFZM24vdo37MQUrFDHihyLogZQhy asXbueceGk8Cqvv4UxGFOx6xzx1iZLGluq4cqxW2YmTt3MSPUvYGM9BGucvzfg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1697087582; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=1PzQuexNLhf/+s6a8WFs5RCsUU7o8XCndgx/jHdR90A=; b=jVLTUAXZtXolUXgu530grck9TuH2H6xLMXUEkes6pWYBUIbHCHrV06eopG/MjdB59TRhup Kk46O6IQak44Xl9+HTBQwi8GK5Y/s7e40kdNgFQTzvxKvmS1SEesb6EFMjLmPlAslnQZHo YRvr9qBRq4SB9CJpz2ss+SA2TMU8sW3jnG4v8CBpu/8Tgbmdm2+ZnCysphzChWp+asa4Po 6u9O69qfqmZLUj98wFQalxFA3zihhVq113ScHCkdy8icfwrfOy8RvMcmi1KAiJPuZUCkzI ABd9hO8Yu3DQ36OQoQM/PA7p7gynF6hthmPGTtmnUCFP/3Oa1z9cZ0xzmnCuGg== Received: from [10.9.4.95] (unknown [209.182.120.176]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: kevans/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4S5d7f1lJTzBRl; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 05:13:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <6b3e4f84-9d98-4e4f-a60f-952d59eb3008@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 00:12:59 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: git: 989c5f6da990 - main - freebsd-update: create deep BEs by default [really about if -r for bectl create should just go away] Content-Language: en-US To: Mark Millard , Current FreeBSD References: <6AA52432-32DF-4C2D-B061-F207521F7397.ref@yahoo.com> <6AA52432-32DF-4C2D-B061-F207521F7397@yahoo.com> From: Kyle Evans In-Reply-To: <6AA52432-32DF-4C2D-B061-F207521F7397@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/12/23 00:08, Mark Millard wrote: > Kyle Evans wrote on > Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 02:54:13 UTC : > >> The branch main has been updated by kevans: >> >> URL: https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=989c5f6da99081b1f2b76ec09e91078e531e1250 >> >> commit 989c5f6da99081b1f2b76ec09e91078e531e1250 >> Author: Kyle Evans >> AuthorDate: 2023-10-12 02:51:07 +0000 >> Commit: Kyle Evans >> CommitDate: 2023-10-12 02:54:03 +0000 >> >> freebsd-update: create deep BEs by default >> >> The -r flag to bectl needs to go away, and we need to just do the right >> thing. In the meantime, we can apply an -r in freebsd-update as a >> minimal fix to stop creating partial backups in these (non-default) deep >> BE setups. > > These notes about not about the specific commit, nor about if -r like behavior > should be the default for bectl create. > > The notes are about if the currently "not -r" bectl create behavior should become > impossible vs. being supported --or, more accurately, what layouts are possible. > (In case I'm misreading the implications of the -r wording.) The primary reason > I use zfs is to use bectl, not for the other kinds of reasons zfs is typically > used for. > > [...] > > I've got such a set up (up to naming differences) as my default > boot media for each of: ThreadRipper 1950X, HoneyComb, > Windows DevKit 2023, MACCHIATObin Double Shot. I also sometimes use > such boot media with the 8 GiByte RPI4B's. (The smaller capacity > systems [all aarch64/armv7] basically just boot UFS media --that I > normally produce from the HoneyCmb's bectl based boot context.) > > If such ends up as unsupportable, it will effectively eliminate my > reason for using bectl (and, so, zfs): the sharing is important to > my use. > -r should do the right thing in all cases, the only real difference from w/o -r is that it'll recurse into subordinates of the BE dataset. For the common case, including yours, that means there's no functional difference and negligible overhead added (because we still have to try to iterate over childfren, even if there are none). Thanks, Kyle Evans